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RCS is a spec ratified by the GSMA, the same standards body that specified things like SMS. Google tried to get Apple to do RCS, they refused, then Google tried

by luma 3y ago

RCS is a spec ratified by the GSMA, the same standards body that specified things like SMS. Google tried to get Apple to do RCS, they refused, then Google tried to get a license to interop with iMessage and Apple refused again. Google has tried literally everything to try and get Apple to play ball here.

joshmanders 3y ago
> Google has tried literally everything to try and get Apple to play ball here. You're framing it in a nefarious way as if Apple is flat out denying it. They didn't. They would have to LOWER security in iPhones by implementing RCS because iMessages have E2EE but RCS doesn't. Which is something all you anti-Apple people seem to conveniently leave out, because you know nobody would take it seriously if you said it.
- xg15 3y ago
  Well I guess then they should let other people interop with iMessage directly, so the E2EE can be kept.
- ruszki 3y ago
  In the thread to which you replied, somebody mentioned that it’s possible to do that on top RCS, and Google already did it. If Apple wants to make their own encryption they can do it, nothing stops them. Interoperability would still be better, just like in the case of Google with other RCS solutions.
  - riscy 3y ago
    Please explain how interoperability between messaging apps is possible if two different, proprietary E2EE schemes are used atop RCS. Google's interop "solution" with the Samsung messages app is by not using encryption. Apple has that same level of support coming to iOS next year, and has also announced plans to work with GSMA on adding standardized encryption to RCS.
    - ruszki 3y ago
      I like that you put Google’s solution into apostrophes, while Apple’s current solution has the same problem, and even more. But I’m glad that we agree.
  - nicce 3y ago
    > In the thread to which you replied, somebody mentioned that it’s possible to do that on top RCS, and Google already did it Google made a copy of iMessage since it is closed source and can talk to only to the same app. How is that better?
    - ruszki 3y ago
      I don’t know what you talk about, because both can talk to whatever they want, because both support SMS.
      - nicce 3y ago
        Then there isn’t issue with iMessage either? But you know what I mean - E2EE of Google Messages is closed solution.
        ruszki 3y ago
        Both have issues. iMessage has problems with interoperability, RCS has problems with requirement of operator support.
        jacksontrom 3y ago
        Google is still working on the standard and adding features to it. If their previous statement is true, they will open source it after that.
- shawnz 3y ago
  the iPhone messages app already supports unencrypted SMS though
riscy 3y ago
> One thing that isn’t part of the [RCS standard ratified by GSMA] is the encryption standard Google is adopting. It’s building it on top of RCS right into the Android Messages client. > If you are texting with somebody who isn’t using Android Messages (say, somebody using Samsung Messages or an iPhone), the fallback to either less-encrypted RCS chat or SMS will still work just fine. Sounds like Samsung users need to separately download Android Messages to get E2EE. Quotes from https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/19/21574451/android-rcs-encryption-message-end-to-end-beta https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/19/21574451/android-rcs-enc... which is cited by Wikpedia on RCS.
paulmd 3y ago
the best part is that I, as a google voice user, still don't have RCS support even though it's a google product. google implemented the exact minimum they'd need to give them a foot to cry on in the courts, and no further. and now that there is a mandate to implement RCS, they almost certainly will choose to kill google voice rather than implement it. I am already planning my exit strategy, because otherwise they'll take my phone number with it. and this is not trivial, we are talking about buying another phone (hopefully it will make it until the next-gen iphone with N3E) and paying for two lines for a couple of months. This is a pain in the ass for me. and google has already embrace-extend-extinguished the standard - their encryption implementation is proprietary and they've refused to let anyone interop, so essentially they have put themselves as imessage 2.0 but with google as the man in the middle this time.

by luma 3y ago

joshmanders 3y ago

> Google has tried literally everything to try and get Apple to play ball here. You're framing it in a nefarious way as if Apple is flat out denying it. They didn't. They would have to LOWER security in iPhones by implementing RCS because iMessages have E2EE but RCS doesn't. Which is something all you anti-Apple people seem to conveniently leave out, because you know nobody would take it seriously if you said it.

xg15 3y ago
Well I guess then they should let other people interop with iMessage directly, so the E2EE can be kept.
ruszki 3y ago
In the thread to which you replied, somebody mentioned that it’s possible to do that on top RCS, and Google already did it. If Apple wants to make their own encryption they can do it, nothing stops them. Interoperability would still be better, just like in the case of Google with other RCS solutions.
- riscy 3y ago
  Please explain how interoperability between messaging apps is possible if two different, proprietary E2EE schemes are used atop RCS. Google's interop "solution" with the Samsung messages app is by not using encryption. Apple has that same level of support coming to iOS next year, and has also announced plans to work with GSMA on adding standardized encryption to RCS.
  - ruszki 3y ago
    I like that you put Google’s solution into apostrophes, while Apple’s current solution has the same problem, and even more. But I’m glad that we agree.
- nicce 3y ago
  > In the thread to which you replied, somebody mentioned that it’s possible to do that on top RCS, and Google already did it Google made a copy of iMessage since it is closed source and can talk to only to the same app. How is that better?
  - ruszki 3y ago
    I don’t know what you talk about, because both can talk to whatever they want, because both support SMS.
    - nicce 3y ago
      Then there isn’t issue with iMessage either? But you know what I mean - E2EE of Google Messages is closed solution.
      - ruszki 3y ago
        Both have issues. iMessage has problems with interoperability, RCS has problems with requirement of operator support.
        jacksontrom 3y ago
        Google is still working on the standard and adding features to it. If their previous statement is true, they will open source it after that.
shawnz 3y ago
the iPhone messages app already supports unencrypted SMS though

riscy 3y ago

> One thing that isn’t part of the [RCS standard ratified by GSMA] is the encryption standard Google is adopting. It’s building it on top of RCS right into the Android Messages client. > If you are texting with somebody who isn’t using Android Messages (say, somebody using Samsung Messages or an iPhone), the fallback to either less-encrypted RCS chat or SMS will still work just fine. Sounds like Samsung users need to separately download Android Messages to get E2EE. Quotes from https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/19/21574451/android-rcs-encryption-message-end-to-end-beta https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/19/21574451/android-rcs-enc... which is cited by Wikpedia on RCS.

paulmd 3y ago

the best part is that I, as a google voice user, still don't have RCS support even though it's a google product. google implemented the exact minimum they'd need to give them a foot to cry on in the courts, and no further. and now that there is a mandate to implement RCS, they almost certainly will choose to kill google voice rather than implement it. I am already planning my exit strategy, because otherwise they'll take my phone number with it. and this is not trivial, we are talking about buying another phone (hopefully it will make it until the next-gen iphone with N3E) and paying for two lines for a couple of months. This is a pain in the ass for me. and google has already embrace-extend-extinguished the standard - their encryption implementation is proprietary and they've refused to let anyone interop, so essentially they have put themselves as imessage 2.0 but with google as the man in the middle this time.