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You left out depreciation, maintenance, and insurance. AAA gives ownership costs at about 75 cents/mile. https://exchange.aaa.com/automotive/aaas-your-driving-c

You left out depreciation, maintenance, and insurance. AAA gives ownership costs at about 75 cents/mile. https://exchange.aaa.com/automotive/aaas-your-driving-costs/ https://exchange.aaa.com/automotive/aaas-your-driving-costs/ With some 383 miles between San Francisco and Los Angeles that's $287 one-way or $575 round-trip. You'll need to add parking fees on top of that. For some people it's totally worth it to bring their own car. That's also why some people drive over flying. But there are also many people who would gladly take a free high-speed train service between those cities, just like there are many who currently fly. For that matter, I've flown into San Francisco for work and not needed a personal vehicle at all.

talldatethrow 3y ago
Do you really think that when a Honda Civic reaches 200k miles, $150k were spent on it? And that includes overall age depreciation which I wouldn't count, because most people that consider taking high speed rail would have a car anyway that's already depreciating.
- eesmith 3y ago
  Saying that something is an average cost does not mean everything costs that much. For example, at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38234972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38234972 you said you have a 2001 Chevy Silverado short bed regular cab 4x4 truck. That's going to have higher fuel costs than a Honda Civic. Even if you leave out depreciation - and low-mileage vehicles have a higher resale value than high-mileage ones so I don't think you can do that - you've still got to include maintenance and insurance, both of which depend on miles traveled. Most people don't run their cars up to 200K. I certainly haven't, and have no idea what work needs to be done to get it there. For a used 2018 Honda Civic LX 4D with MSRP $20,700.00 driven 10K/year, AAA's online calculator, available from that page, estimates: Total Driving Cost Per Year $9,050.20 Per Mile $0.91 5-year Total $45,251.00 Costs Breakdown Cost per year 5-year Total Fuel $1,649.60 $8,248.00 MaintRepair $2,212.20 $11,061.00 Depreciation $2,115.60 $10,578.00 Insurance $1,890.00 $9,450.00 Fees & Taxes $546.20 $2,731.00 Finance Charges $636.60 $3,183.00 At 200K, that's 20 years, or well over $150K; closer to $200K. You can also see how they estimate MaintRepair will cost more than fuel, highlighting how fuel cost isn't the only important thing to think about.
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    This is supposed to be a forum where people think a little... You extrapolated depreciation due to age on a new car (which isn't anywhere near the same later), full coverage insurance that seems grossly over priced anyway (that people change to lower coverage as a car becomes worth less), taxes and fees that are not as high by the time a car is older, and you added $12000 of finance charges on a $20000 car. It does not cost $9k a year to drive a used Honda Civic. Also, I don't take my Silverado to LA unless I want to for fun. I usually take my Chevy Volt. I'm never taking a train unless maybe I'm going down there to buy a vehicle and drive or ride it back.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      It’s the same bad math that says it costs $250k to raise a kid so the family down the street with five kids must have access to $1.25 million.
      - talldatethrow 3y ago
        Exactly. I'm from the central valley, where the less money you have the more kids you have and the happier and more fulfilled you and your kids seem. My GF teaches in a popular silicon valley suburb where the average parent makes $300k+ and the kids are either insane, depressed, autistic, sociopaths, or 4 years behind on their reading and math levels.
      - eesmith 3y ago
        Yes, that's why cherry-picking a Honda Civic reaching 200K miles is an outlier which does not provide insight on the average vehicle operating cost per mile. It's also bad math to say the only cost to driving 383 miles is the fuel. If you would believe talldatethrow's math, you should get a job driving your car for a CA state job. You would get reimbursed $0.625 /mile for something which costs you no more than $100/383 miles = $0.26/mile. The extra $0.37/mile at 30 mph is an extra $10/hour of income. I don't think the government is really that generous, do you?
        3y ago

talldatethrow 3y ago

Do you really think that when a Honda Civic reaches 200k miles, $150k were spent on it? And that includes overall age depreciation which I wouldn't count, because most people that consider taking high speed rail would have a car anyway that's already depreciating.

eesmith 3y ago
Saying that something is an average cost does not mean everything costs that much. For example, at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38234972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38234972 you said you have a 2001 Chevy Silverado short bed regular cab 4x4 truck. That's going to have higher fuel costs than a Honda Civic. Even if you leave out depreciation - and low-mileage vehicles have a higher resale value than high-mileage ones so I don't think you can do that - you've still got to include maintenance and insurance, both of which depend on miles traveled. Most people don't run their cars up to 200K. I certainly haven't, and have no idea what work needs to be done to get it there. For a used 2018 Honda Civic LX 4D with MSRP $20,700.00 driven 10K/year, AAA's online calculator, available from that page, estimates: Total Driving Cost Per Year $9,050.20 Per Mile $0.91 5-year Total $45,251.00 Costs Breakdown Cost per year 5-year Total Fuel $1,649.60 $8,248.00 MaintRepair $2,212.20 $11,061.00 Depreciation $2,115.60 $10,578.00 Insurance $1,890.00 $9,450.00 Fees & Taxes $546.20 $2,731.00 Finance Charges $636.60 $3,183.00 At 200K, that's 20 years, or well over $150K; closer to $200K. You can also see how they estimate MaintRepair will cost more than fuel, highlighting how fuel cost isn't the only important thing to think about.
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  This is supposed to be a forum where people think a little... You extrapolated depreciation due to age on a new car (which isn't anywhere near the same later), full coverage insurance that seems grossly over priced anyway (that people change to lower coverage as a car becomes worth less), taxes and fees that are not as high by the time a car is older, and you added $12000 of finance charges on a $20000 car. It does not cost $9k a year to drive a used Honda Civic. Also, I don't take my Silverado to LA unless I want to for fun. I usually take my Chevy Volt. I'm never taking a train unless maybe I'm going down there to buy a vehicle and drive or ride it back.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    It’s the same bad math that says it costs $250k to raise a kid so the family down the street with five kids must have access to $1.25 million.
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      Exactly. I'm from the central valley, where the less money you have the more kids you have and the happier and more fulfilled you and your kids seem. My GF teaches in a popular silicon valley suburb where the average parent makes $300k+ and the kids are either insane, depressed, autistic, sociopaths, or 4 years behind on their reading and math levels.
    - eesmith 3y ago
      Yes, that's why cherry-picking a Honda Civic reaching 200K miles is an outlier which does not provide insight on the average vehicle operating cost per mile. It's also bad math to say the only cost to driving 383 miles is the fuel. If you would believe talldatethrow's math, you should get a job driving your car for a CA state job. You would get reimbursed $0.625 /mile for something which costs you no more than $100/383 miles = $0.26/mile. The extra $0.37/mile at 30 mph is an extra $10/hour of income. I don't think the government is really that generous, do you?
      - 3y ago