4 ms·

I would count food as a college cost, certainly, due to meal plans. Many colleges, like the one I worked at, had an outside vendor working many of the eateries

I would count food as a college cost, certainly, due to meal plans. Many colleges, like the one I worked at, had an outside vendor working many of the eateries. They had such a stranglehold that they (anti-competitively) did not want the places they didn't run (usually little student-run things attached to a particular school, vending machines, foot carts) listed at all. First they got the contract and wowed us with some great food. Over the years, however, their prices went up, and both the portion size and the quality decreased. Additionally, many students with the mandatory meal plans had excess points at the end of the semester or year. No refunds. Even at the university I attended, way back when, what I got for my money when I moved out of campus was a lot better than what I got when I had to have a dorm room and eat in the cafeteria from what was provided. Better space, better food. Or you could save your money and live in the much-smaller rooms which were next to campus. I would start counting things as "college costs" when there was a some intersection of outside vendor, profit center, and mandatory subscription. You can see parallels with "textbooks" (freshly printed, spiral-bound, new-each-semester, written-by-the-prof) you must get at some incredible cost, often in excess of two hundred dollars. I'm not one of those people who bangs on about the free market all the time, but there's some serious quasi-regulatory capture going on there.

randomdata 3y ago
> I would count food as a college cost, certainly, due to meal plans. Total cost? If a meal plan burger works out to $11 and a burger at the restaurant next door is $10, is the cost of college $11 or $1? If the meal plan burger is, instead, $9, did your college costs drop by $1?
- at_a_remove 3y ago
  I think the most reasonable approach would be to use the differential price. Of course, that's kicking the can down the road a bit. Meal plan burger is $11, the burger next door is $10, but the burger back home in Podunk, Flyoversas is $6. Certainly the $1 differential price is immediately obvious and seems fair, but would I be eating even that ten buck burger if I hadn't moved to Cosmetropolis, New Coast? Could I argue a five dollar differential? Perhaps, but then you're getting into "the cost of college" versus "the cost of a specific college." It's a tough problem. You're left with this kind of Sliding Doors situation where you are left attempting to compare two different life-strands: one in which you went to college and had to buy decent Wellingtons and an overcoat and gloves because of the weather there and one where you stayed at home, because the weather in Podunk is at least pleasant.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    > You're left with this kind of Sliding Doors situation where you are left attempting to compare two different life-strands That comes down to the individual, which we cannot speak to generally, but someone considering going to college will certainly consider the options in front of them. The article's insistence that the entire cost of housing is considered a cost of college may not be a useful framework for someone doing that decision making. While said jokingly, the bit about people going to college to learn how to determine if college is a good deal or not contains quite a lot of truth. The, typically young, people choosing whether or go to college or not generally don't have the life experience and knowledge to make an informed decision, relying on things like this article to help guide them. I am inclined to agree with your reasoning, and touched on that lightly in the first comment. But, as mentioned then, the data suggests that most people near live where colleges are also located anyway. An individual may have otherwise lived in Podunk, Flyoversas, but if we have to establish a general case, then it seems people generally live in the same place either way. Thus, given the broad strokes at play, is it useful to call housing a college cost?
    - at_a_remove 3y ago
      I think it is for anything beyond community college or some other favorable stay-at-home situation. Most people who go to college outside of community colleges move. And many pennywise folks get a bunch of degree prerequisites out of the way via a year or two at community college before moving on. I got comparative savings just leaving the dorms. And don't get me started on getting some hapless seventeen year old to sign up for debt which cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. Were barely-shaving I to walk into a bank and ask for a loan of a hundred thousand dollars or more, they would pat my head, give me a lollipop, and gently punt me onto the sidewalk. Say it is for college, though ... Not only are you expected to take on this debt, but you're also supposed to have a reasonable idea of what it is you want to do as a career, so as to educate yourself for it. Now that's a laugh.
      - randomdata 3y ago
        > you're also supposed to have a reasonable idea of what it is you want to do as a career, so as to educate yourself for it. Yeah, really. I keep two careers in adulthood. I started the one around the age of 8 and the other around the age of 15. I find it insane people aren't already into their careers by the time high school comes to an end. Or, should I say, I find it insane that we as a society create artificial barriers that keep most people away from careers until they are quite old. I consider myself extremely fortunate to have people in my life that were willing to push those barriers aside when I was in my learning prime. By the time you're 18, 19, 20 you've got better things to do than educate yourself for a career. It can be done, but optimally it is much too late in life.

randomdata 3y ago

> I would count food as a college cost, certainly, due to meal plans. Total cost? If a meal plan burger works out to $11 and a burger at the restaurant next door is $10, is the cost of college $11 or $1? If the meal plan burger is, instead, $9, did your college costs drop by $1?

at_a_remove 3y ago
I think the most reasonable approach would be to use the differential price. Of course, that's kicking the can down the road a bit. Meal plan burger is $11, the burger next door is $10, but the burger back home in Podunk, Flyoversas is $6. Certainly the $1 differential price is immediately obvious and seems fair, but would I be eating even that ten buck burger if I hadn't moved to Cosmetropolis, New Coast? Could I argue a five dollar differential? Perhaps, but then you're getting into "the cost of college" versus "the cost of a specific college." It's a tough problem. You're left with this kind of Sliding Doors situation where you are left attempting to compare two different life-strands: one in which you went to college and had to buy decent Wellingtons and an overcoat and gloves because of the weather there and one where you stayed at home, because the weather in Podunk is at least pleasant.
- randomdata 3y ago
  > You're left with this kind of Sliding Doors situation where you are left attempting to compare two different life-strands That comes down to the individual, which we cannot speak to generally, but someone considering going to college will certainly consider the options in front of them. The article's insistence that the entire cost of housing is considered a cost of college may not be a useful framework for someone doing that decision making. While said jokingly, the bit about people going to college to learn how to determine if college is a good deal or not contains quite a lot of truth. The, typically young, people choosing whether or go to college or not generally don't have the life experience and knowledge to make an informed decision, relying on things like this article to help guide them. I am inclined to agree with your reasoning, and touched on that lightly in the first comment. But, as mentioned then, the data suggests that most people near live where colleges are also located anyway. An individual may have otherwise lived in Podunk, Flyoversas, but if we have to establish a general case, then it seems people generally live in the same place either way. Thus, given the broad strokes at play, is it useful to call housing a college cost?
  - at_a_remove 3y ago
    I think it is for anything beyond community college or some other favorable stay-at-home situation. Most people who go to college outside of community colleges move. And many pennywise folks get a bunch of degree prerequisites out of the way via a year or two at community college before moving on. I got comparative savings just leaving the dorms. And don't get me started on getting some hapless seventeen year old to sign up for debt which cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. Were barely-shaving I to walk into a bank and ask for a loan of a hundred thousand dollars or more, they would pat my head, give me a lollipop, and gently punt me onto the sidewalk. Say it is for college, though ... Not only are you expected to take on this debt, but you're also supposed to have a reasonable idea of what it is you want to do as a career, so as to educate yourself for it. Now that's a laugh.
    - randomdata 3y ago
      > you're also supposed to have a reasonable idea of what it is you want to do as a career, so as to educate yourself for it. Yeah, really. I keep two careers in adulthood. I started the one around the age of 8 and the other around the age of 15. I find it insane people aren't already into their careers by the time high school comes to an end. Or, should I say, I find it insane that we as a society create artificial barriers that keep most people away from careers until they are quite old. I consider myself extremely fortunate to have people in my life that were willing to push those barriers aside when I was in my learning prime. By the time you're 18, 19, 20 you've got better things to do than educate yourself for a career. It can be done, but optimally it is much too late in life.