8 ms·

As an iPhone user, I‘m pretty happy how Apple dealt with this so far. I would hate to get spammed on iMessage and knowing that my messages are rendered exactly

As an iPhone user, I‘m pretty happy how Apple dealt with this so far. I would hate to get spammed on iMessage and knowing that my messages are rendered exactly as intended on the receiver’s side is reassuring. Calling this anti-consumer is rather subjective.

Larrikin 3y ago
Your messages are all screwed up when delivered to anyone not using an iPhone. Pictures and movies are basically destroyed and worthless. The fake spam complaint is addressed in the article.
- _Microft 3y ago
  > Your messages are all screwed up when delivered to anyone not using an iPhone. Pictures and movies are basically destroyed and worthless. Sure and it is absolutely obvious on my side because these contacts don’t show blue messages. Take that away and the situation turns worse because now I‘d have to guess. Edit: don’t get me wrong - I don‘t send broken messages, I just contact them on other messengers instead.
  - sanex 3y ago
    It's obvious to you but not obvious to your average iPhone user which is why I get videos with 3 pixels sent to me repeatedly. On the flip side I can mms videos with acceptable resolution just fine. It's all just to try and keep people in the system, not because it's a better user experience.
    - inferiorhuman 3y ago
      Bullshit. AT&T limits MMS videos to 1 MB, Verizon to between 1 MB and 3.5 MB depending on the sender, T-Mobile/Sprint 1 MB to 3 MB depending. If you're getting "acceptable resolution" H.264 videos they're being sent over RCS.
- BlackjackCF 3y ago
  I’m likely wrong here but isn’t that a problem with SMS and not necessarily iMessage?
  - daedalus_j 3y ago
    I can exchange MMS to other Android users (and it's MMS, not RCS) that aren't ridiculously compressed, so I've always assumed it was Apple.
    - giantrobot 3y ago
      MMS limitations stem from the carrier. They have different attachment size limits which affects how Messages will encode the content.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- jmye 3y ago
  This is absolutely, unconditonally untrue. I can send a message to an Android user just fine. SMS is delivered as it is anywhere else. Pictures go through fine - my partner and I can, and do, regularly share pictures without any issue at all. Why hyperbolize things and spread outright nonsense? To what possible end?
  - sixothree 3y ago
    I experience the issues described when texting android users.
  - Larrikin 3y ago
    MMS in 2023 is not an acceptable fallback. We all have cameras capable of shooting amazing pictures and 4k movies. The size limit destroys decent looking pictures and basically prevents movies from even being an option with how grainy they appear stretched out on our 4k screens. This is ignoring all the other interactive elements that are just table stakes in any kind of messaging application that make SMS absolutely terrible in comparison.
    - Grustaf 3y ago
      If you do don’t like mms, don’t use it, there are tons of alternatives. I have half a dozen chat apps.
luma 3y ago
The Apple Stockholm Syndrome is endemic on HN. The lengths people will go to support open source and open access while also vehemently defending the exact opposite behavior from Apple is astounding.
- _Microft 3y ago
  I do more than enough tinkering but my phone‘s supposed to just work.
  - luma 3y ago
    How is your tinkering enhanced by Apple making it difficult to communicate outside of their kingdom?
    - riscy 3y ago
      I don't see Google making it easier to communicate outside of their kingdom. AFAIK Google's RCS (with their encryption extensions) is not an industry standard or available for 3rd party apps to use. Why is the expectation only on Apple to make such changes?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - tedd4u 3y ago
        Apple says they will implement RCS in 2024. https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/16/23964171/apple-iphone-rcs-support https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/16/23964171/apple-iphone-rc...
        legobmw99 3y ago
        Without end to end encryption, because that is not part of the standard, as the grandparent comment said
      - nicoburns 3y ago
Centigonal 3y ago
Are you okay with Apple not supporting RCS on their phones? As far as I can tell, that strictly worsens your experience as a user.
- _Microft 3y ago
  I was not familiar with RCS yet but according to Wikipedia, Apple will begin to support RCS in 2024. On the other hand, this doesn’t exactly inspire confidence that it is going to be a polished experience: „Not all RCS functions defined in the standard are offered by every network and every client; only the services that are available to two communication partners are also offered in the client.“ (translated from the German Wikipedia article).
  - forty 3y ago
    That's one of the point of the article. It's not known whether the RCS implementation of apple will be interoperable with Android's.
- Grustaf 3y ago
  I’ve had iPhones for ten years and never once cared about RCS. Never even heard of it until recently, and I don’t think anyone I know has ever heard of it. It’s very very niche to care at all about it.
  - Centigonal 3y ago
    While "RCS" is an obscure standard nobody cares about, "being able to send reactions, high-res photos, videos, and voice memos in text messages" is a pretty universal concern. iPhone support for RCS would let iPhone users have those features in conversations with the green-messages.
    - Grustaf 3y ago
      I never once wished I was able to do that, the only application for that would be to communicate with android users that for some reason refuse to use whatsapp, fb messages, telegram or any of the numerous cross platform that do that. Why would anyone want to do this specifically using the sms protocol?
crakhamster01 3y ago
This comment makes no sense - I'm an iPhone user and receive spam almost daily. And if it's reassuring to know that your messages are rendered correctly, Beeper Mini would only expand the number of contacts that this applies to. How exactly is Beeper worsening the iPhone experience?
ricardobayes 3y ago
Please drink verification can and continue. Anyone unsure what this means: it's a popular meme where the future of cloud/online gaming will degrade to cross-sell products maliciously. (Requiring the user to drink a sugary soft drink to continue using the product).
dimator 3y ago
> Calling this anti-consumer is rather subjective. This is the entire fiasco distilled down to what is the root of the issue: to apple, non-apple users are not consumers. Substandard. This is the exact sentiment behind "Buy your mom an iPhone" Messaging is by definition something that needs interop. This is why Apple (begrudgingly) supports at least SMS and MMS, because obviously you need to interop with "the others." It's also why they're being dragged kicking and screaming into RCS, which in all likelihood, they'll make equally shitty. The fact that one company can dictate the terms of that interoperability, and make it as excruciating and inferior as possible, tells you all you need to know. But if you're the "in group" you can't even see what the issue even is.
- _Microft 3y ago
  Actually you are correct. I confused consumers and customers.
prmoustache 3y ago
Spam is a lame excuse. From what I have understood in the first beeper mini anonucement, iMessage spam does already exist. Also I never received spam on any open source messaging app, even when they were interconnected with gmail and facebook (xmpp). I've never received spam from telegram either, despite clients, protocol and API being open source. I have received less than a handful of spam on Whatsapp in more than 10 years. The only platform where I have received spam in their messaging app was instagram (I left in the meantime). It would be the same for iMessage. As long as spam is bound to a phone number, spammers will be banned the minute they start sending messages to people and will never reach you. Spam however is a big deal on SMS, which if I understand correctly end up on iMessage on Apple devices. So basically the Apple way is the worse way to deal with spam as all end up on the same app while on most other smartphone OS spam end up in the dedicated SMS messaging app that you can just totally ignore and disable notifications for. Apple does make it worse for its user in that context.

Larrikin 3y ago

Your messages are all screwed up when delivered to anyone not using an iPhone. Pictures and movies are basically destroyed and worthless. The fake spam complaint is addressed in the article.

_Microft 3y ago
> Your messages are all screwed up when delivered to anyone not using an iPhone. Pictures and movies are basically destroyed and worthless. Sure and it is absolutely obvious on my side because these contacts don’t show blue messages. Take that away and the situation turns worse because now I‘d have to guess. Edit: don’t get me wrong - I don‘t send broken messages, I just contact them on other messengers instead.
- sanex 3y ago
  It's obvious to you but not obvious to your average iPhone user which is why I get videos with 3 pixels sent to me repeatedly. On the flip side I can mms videos with acceptable resolution just fine. It's all just to try and keep people in the system, not because it's a better user experience.
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    Bullshit. AT&T limits MMS videos to 1 MB, Verizon to between 1 MB and 3.5 MB depending on the sender, T-Mobile/Sprint 1 MB to 3 MB depending. If you're getting "acceptable resolution" H.264 videos they're being sent over RCS.
BlackjackCF 3y ago
I’m likely wrong here but isn’t that a problem with SMS and not necessarily iMessage?
- daedalus_j 3y ago
  I can exchange MMS to other Android users (and it's MMS, not RCS) that aren't ridiculously compressed, so I've always assumed it was Apple.
  - giantrobot 3y ago
    MMS limitations stem from the carrier. They have different attachment size limits which affects how Messages will encode the content.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
jmye 3y ago
This is absolutely, unconditonally untrue. I can send a message to an Android user just fine. SMS is delivered as it is anywhere else. Pictures go through fine - my partner and I can, and do, regularly share pictures without any issue at all. Why hyperbolize things and spread outright nonsense? To what possible end?
- sixothree 3y ago
  I experience the issues described when texting android users.
- Larrikin 3y ago
  MMS in 2023 is not an acceptable fallback. We all have cameras capable of shooting amazing pictures and 4k movies. The size limit destroys decent looking pictures and basically prevents movies from even being an option with how grainy they appear stretched out on our 4k screens. This is ignoring all the other interactive elements that are just table stakes in any kind of messaging application that make SMS absolutely terrible in comparison.
  - Grustaf 3y ago
    If you do don’t like mms, don’t use it, there are tons of alternatives. I have half a dozen chat apps.

luma 3y ago

The Apple Stockholm Syndrome is endemic on HN. The lengths people will go to support open source and open access while also vehemently defending the exact opposite behavior from Apple is astounding.

_Microft 3y ago
I do more than enough tinkering but my phone‘s supposed to just work.
- luma 3y ago
  How is your tinkering enhanced by Apple making it difficult to communicate outside of their kingdom?
  - riscy 3y ago
    I don't see Google making it easier to communicate outside of their kingdom. AFAIK Google's RCS (with their encryption extensions) is not an industry standard or available for 3rd party apps to use. Why is the expectation only on Apple to make such changes?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - tedd4u 3y ago
      Apple says they will implement RCS in 2024. https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/16/23964171/apple-iphone-rcs-support https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/16/23964171/apple-iphone-rc...
      - legobmw99 3y ago
        Without end to end encryption, because that is not part of the standard, as the grandparent comment said
    - nicoburns 3y ago

Centigonal 3y ago

Are you okay with Apple not supporting RCS on their phones? As far as I can tell, that strictly worsens your experience as a user.

_Microft 3y ago
I was not familiar with RCS yet but according to Wikipedia, Apple will begin to support RCS in 2024. On the other hand, this doesn’t exactly inspire confidence that it is going to be a polished experience: „Not all RCS functions defined in the standard are offered by every network and every client; only the services that are available to two communication partners are also offered in the client.“ (translated from the German Wikipedia article).
- forty 3y ago
  That's one of the point of the article. It's not known whether the RCS implementation of apple will be interoperable with Android's.
Grustaf 3y ago
I’ve had iPhones for ten years and never once cared about RCS. Never even heard of it until recently, and I don’t think anyone I know has ever heard of it. It’s very very niche to care at all about it.
- Centigonal 3y ago
  While "RCS" is an obscure standard nobody cares about, "being able to send reactions, high-res photos, videos, and voice memos in text messages" is a pretty universal concern. iPhone support for RCS would let iPhone users have those features in conversations with the green-messages.
  - Grustaf 3y ago
    I never once wished I was able to do that, the only application for that would be to communicate with android users that for some reason refuse to use whatsapp, fb messages, telegram or any of the numerous cross platform that do that. Why would anyone want to do this specifically using the sms protocol?

crakhamster01 3y ago

This comment makes no sense - I'm an iPhone user and receive spam almost daily. And if it's reassuring to know that your messages are rendered correctly, Beeper Mini would only expand the number of contacts that this applies to. How exactly is Beeper worsening the iPhone experience?

ricardobayes 3y ago

Please drink verification can and continue. Anyone unsure what this means: it's a popular meme where the future of cloud/online gaming will degrade to cross-sell products maliciously. (Requiring the user to drink a sugary soft drink to continue using the product).

dimator 3y ago

> Calling this anti-consumer is rather subjective. This is the entire fiasco distilled down to what is the root of the issue: to apple, non-apple users are not consumers. Substandard. This is the exact sentiment behind "Buy your mom an iPhone" Messaging is by definition something that needs interop. This is why Apple (begrudgingly) supports at least SMS and MMS, because obviously you need to interop with "the others." It's also why they're being dragged kicking and screaming into RCS, which in all likelihood, they'll make equally shitty. The fact that one company can dictate the terms of that interoperability, and make it as excruciating and inferior as possible, tells you all you need to know. But if you're the "in group" you can't even see what the issue even is.

_Microft 3y ago
Actually you are correct. I confused consumers and customers.

prmoustache 3y ago

Spam is a lame excuse. From what I have understood in the first beeper mini anonucement, iMessage spam does already exist. Also I never received spam on any open source messaging app, even when they were interconnected with gmail and facebook (xmpp). I've never received spam from telegram either, despite clients, protocol and API being open source. I have received less than a handful of spam on Whatsapp in more than 10 years. The only platform where I have received spam in their messaging app was instagram (I left in the meantime). It would be the same for iMessage. As long as spam is bound to a phone number, spammers will be banned the minute they start sending messages to people and will never reach you. Spam however is a big deal on SMS, which if I understand correctly end up on iMessage on Apple devices. So basically the Apple way is the worse way to deal with spam as all end up on the same app while on most other smartphone OS spam end up in the dedicated SMS messaging app that you can just totally ignore and disable notifications for. Apple does make it worse for its user in that context.