5 ms·
It served its purpose of diverting attention (and so funding) from high speed rail, which is a threat to his business of selling cars. https://twitter.com/pari
by stuaxo 3y ago
It served its purpose of diverting attention (and so funding) from high speed rail, which is a threat to his business of selling cars.
https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1571628269555826688?lang=en https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1571628269555826688?lan...
- pinewurst 3y agoThough CA “high speed” rail is so profoundly dysfunctional that it was hardly worth Musk’s efforts.
- martythemaniak 3y agoHigh Speed rail attempts have failed everywhere in North America, it has nothing to do with Musk or Hyperloop and everything to do with how incredibly poorly HSR fits into the existing urban fabric of North America. There have been many studies of building a HSR line between Windsor and Quebec City and you just can't make it work.
- easton 3y agoBrightline exists and is operational in Florida, you can now ride a high speed train from Miami to Orlando (as long as you're okay with 120mph as high speed). They are still expanding it to Tampa too.
- Neikius 3y agoA few big cities and long distances in between. Sounds like A perfect country for rail. But oh didn't work. Guess distances are big enough air travel makes more sense. Unless the volume is big enough maybe?
- paulddraper 3y agoThe biggest threat to CA high speed trail is CA high speed rail
- corethree 3y agoThe entire country can be characterized by this quote. What's the biggest threat to the USA?
- negrit 3y agoCA isn't the only state investing in high speed rail. Elon musk lied to many people in many states with his Hyperloop project.
- Qwertious 3y agoThe biggest threat to CA high speed rail is NIMBYism dragging out the project and creating onerous requirements. This isn't unique to rail, either - if a Hyperloop was built, it'd be NIMBYed just as badly.
- uxp100 3y agoSo this is a journalist quoting their own tweet which links to an article that quotes them attributing something to Musk’s biographer. Issaacson? The book is out, can’t we just see the actual primary source now?
- grecy 3y ago> which is a threat to his business of selling cars With 40,000kms of high speed rail [1] (by far the most in the world), China must then have very few electric vehicles. In reality they are the world leader. [2] [1] https://www.statista.com/topics/7534/high-speed-rail-in-china/#topicOverview https://www.statista.com/topics/7534/high-speed-rail-in-chin... [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-17/how-china-beat-everyone-to-be-world-leader-in-electric-vehicles https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-17/how-china...
- croes 3y ago40,000km are too few for a country of the size of China, nit to mention over 1 billion people.
- grecy 3y agoGood thing they built another 2,900km in 2023, and have no intention of letting up! https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/china-building-more-than-1800-miles-of-rail-lines-in-2023/ https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/china-buil...
- renewiltord 3y agoCA HSR is going to spend $8b to connect 4th and King to the Transbay Terminal. That's 2 miles. At $4b/mi, the problem would be too much attention not too little https://sfstandard.com/2023/10/27/san-francisco-downtown-rail-extension-portal-cost/ https://sfstandard.com/2023/10/27/san-francisco-downtown-rai...
- Pet_Ant 3y agoI hate this kind of math because it really doesn't tell you much. What are the fixed costs? What's the maintenance? What are the costs to extend? If this is the cost now, what is the cost for the next phase? How much benefit are we getting out of those 2 miles? You comment reduced a complex issue to an elementary word problem in math.
- mschuster91 3y ago> I hate this kind of math because it really doesn't tell you much. It tells you enough: Europe, more specifically Germany, builds HSR for about 40 million euros a kilometer [1]. This project here is 8 billion dollars for about 3.2km, or about 2.500 million dollars a kilometer - that is three orders of magnitude more expensive than Germany. [1] https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article171431132/Die-Beule-in-der-neuen-Rennstrecke-kostet-20-Minuten-und-2-Milliarden.html https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article171431132/Die-Beule-in...
- vaidhy 3y agoI believe 40mill is the average across the network. The 8 billion is for a specific portion in a high CoL area with the majority being land acquisition costs. If you have a dig a new subway station in middle of Frankfurt, for an infrastructure that does not exist today, it would not be the average.
- Pet_Ant 3y ago> The 8 billion is for a specific portion in a high CoL area with the majority being land acquisition costs. This is exactly the kind of thing I was suspecting was by misleading by the original number. "America can't build affordable high-speed rail" suggests that that their is same lacking capability in engineering. "Land costs make building in dense areas unprofitable" is a completely different story.
- talldatethrow 3y agoI'm from Europe originally, and visit often. And now in California. You could make Highspeed rail FREE and I'm not sure I would take it. I might. Maybe. As soon as it costs what gas costs to get to LA from SF ($100 round trip max, so usually $50-33 a person), there is NOOOO way I am ever taking it. Heck, I still need a way to get around once I get there.. so how would the train ever really work for anyone? Now I'm renting a car or taking Uber? Why wouldn't I just take my own car I like. And take more items without lugging them on a train. Without traveling to the train. Without paying parking at the station. Who is this train for?
- corethree 3y agoWhy would you not take it when it's free? Makes zero sense.
- talldatethrow 3y agoBecause it's a way worse experience than taking my own car. Maybe if they paid me I'd take it. If they paid enough.
- ryukafalz 3y agoAs someone living in the Northeast and having often made train trips of similar length (Philadelphia -> Boston), I don't see how. If I'm driving and need to stop to use the bathroom, eat something, or so on I'm setting myself back time-wise. Plus I have to stay sitting down the whole time and have to stay focused on the road for hours. If I take the train, I can get up, stretch my legs, grab some food, and I'll still get there at exactly the same time I would have otherwise. I can watch a movie on the way, or pull out my laptop to work on a side project if I want, or play some video games. I'll take the train over driving any day.
- talldatethrow 3y agoI suppose all this hinges on if you want to have a car when you get to the destination. If not, then sure take the train if flying doesn't work. But I usually want to have a car. So I'll be driving until it really doesn't make sense for me. Most people I know spend crazy money for a car, if you compare to how little they could spend. Thus it seems many people are ok shelling out thousands of dollars a year for a cooler or more comfortable car. I have a feeling if high speed rail costs the same as taking their car, they are for sure going to take their car.
- Turing_Machine 3y agoThe estimated cost of the Merced to Bakersfield segment (the only one currently being built, and two locations between which no one outside of a Merle Haggard song has ever wanted to go) has ballooned to $33 billion, more than the initial projected cost for the entire system. The full system is now projected to cost $128 billion, nearly 4x what it was supposed to cost. It's not "Musk" who's responsible for that. Edit: link. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-03-11/new-cost-estimate-for-high-speed-rail-puts-california-bullet-train-100-billion-in-the-red https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-03-11/new-cost...
- _ea1k 3y agoThat gives Musk way too much credit.
- notahacker 3y agoReminds me of how HN received the original proposal: with as much discussion about the thing that it was supposed to replace as the supposed novel tech https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6201586 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6201586 Probably deserves as much recognition as the original Dropbox thread, but for different reasons.
- wilg 3y agoExcept it did not divert attention or funding from high speed rail.
- some_random 3y agoHyperloop One was not a Musk company.