5 ms·

I don't know how this argument can hold? Malls charge their tenant stores a fee to lease space. Why shouldn't app stores? I use an application that supports pl

I don't know how this argument can hold? Malls charge their tenant stores a fee to lease space. Why shouldn't app stores? I use an application that supports plugins from 3P developers. The number of times some script is broken because a certain developer fat fingered their own config drives me mad. Whereas the experience of downloading apps from the Play Store is seamless.

poisonborz 3y ago
You can easily avoid malls. Try to avoid default app stores. You don't expect to be locked in a mall when buying a computer device.
karmakaze 3y ago
The problem is with "rent seeking" where the amount taken is not related to service provided but rather ownership of the platform. If Google only collected for the Play Service usage that would be one thing, but they can also take a cut of ongoing subscriptions. You could also argue that updates are also provided as a service, but the amounts collected aren't in line with the service that's provided. One way to ensure equity of service/fee is to have competition. There is no reasonable Play Store competitor for Android.
- nickff 3y ago
  I understand why you are using the words "rent seeking", but that's a defined term with a meaning which differs from what you're trying to describe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking >"Rent-seeking is the act of growing one's existing wealth by manipulating the social or political environment without creating new wealth.[1] Rent-seeking activities have negative effects on the rest of society. They result in reduced economic efficiency through misallocation of resources, reduced wealth creation, lost government revenue, heightened income inequality,[2][3] risk of growing political bribery, and potential national decline. "
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    But Google actually is rent seeking by the economic description. The poster is just accusing google of a 'lesser charge' by misunderstanding the concept, they should fix their accusation of what Google is doing not change the term.
    - nickff 3y ago
      Charging for access to your products, or taking a cut for sales which take place in your 'virtual store' does not involve any social or political manipulation.
    - karmakaze 3y ago
      Yes right, I was primarily referring to the economic part of the term. There is also ongoing effort of platform owners to maintain their position which does fulfill the other part of the definition.
mvdtnz 3y ago
> I don't know how this argument can hold? Malls charge their tenant stores a fee to lease space. Why shouldn't app stores? Most of us don't object to Google charging a fee for each app sale (although I still think 30% is exorbitant). But they charge a fee for every transaction the app charges and I think that's absolutely obscene. The mall doesn't charge the shoe shop 30% of every pair of shoes they sell.
- tiltowait 3y ago
  If they didn't charge for IAP, then every dev would go "free"+IAP, and Google/Apple would get nothing.
  - spywaregorilla 3y ago
    Which is precisely what they deserve
    - donkers 3y ago
      So they’re supposed to run all the infra and services for apps as a charity?
      - spywaregorilla 3y ago
        if they're putting up barriers to let other people do it as an alternative then yes
- crazygringo 3y ago
  It has to be the same rate across app purchase and in-app transactions. Otherwise every app will be free but charge a transaction to unlock its functionality.
  - mvdtnz 3y ago
    And what's the excuse for Google getting a cut of every book an e-book reader sells? Or every monthly charge from a subscription based video service like Nebula?
javier_e06 3y ago
Is all fine and dandy the Mall analogy except that the are only 2 'Malls' in the world. Apple Store and Google Play Store. That kind of leverage has never existed before in the history of this world economy.
- ajmurmann 3y ago
  Is this from the parent not true? "Other vendors such as Amazon, Samsung and Microsoft happily ship their own app stores and competing app sets"
- m4rtink 3y ago
  East India Company ? Also had some rather negative effects.
kevingadd 3y ago
Charging rent based on square footage or location and charging a 30% tax on all the transactions that happen in your mall are pretty different.
neurostimulant 3y ago
Unlike google play, malls don't prevent their visitors to buy the same goods from stores outside the malls. Google play protect is known to remove apps installed from another source (e.g. fdroid) if the app is also available from google play: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37879935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37879935

poisonborz 3y ago

You can easily avoid malls. Try to avoid default app stores. You don't expect to be locked in a mall when buying a computer device.

karmakaze 3y ago

The problem is with "rent seeking" where the amount taken is not related to service provided but rather ownership of the platform. If Google only collected for the Play Service usage that would be one thing, but they can also take a cut of ongoing subscriptions. You could also argue that updates are also provided as a service, but the amounts collected aren't in line with the service that's provided. One way to ensure equity of service/fee is to have competition. There is no reasonable Play Store competitor for Android.

nickff 3y ago
I understand why you are using the words "rent seeking", but that's a defined term with a meaning which differs from what you're trying to describe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking >"Rent-seeking is the act of growing one's existing wealth by manipulating the social or political environment without creating new wealth.[1] Rent-seeking activities have negative effects on the rest of society. They result in reduced economic efficiency through misallocation of resources, reduced wealth creation, lost government revenue, heightened income inequality,[2][3] risk of growing political bribery, and potential national decline. "
- lamontcg 3y ago
  But Google actually is rent seeking by the economic description. The poster is just accusing google of a 'lesser charge' by misunderstanding the concept, they should fix their accusation of what Google is doing not change the term.
  - nickff 3y ago
    Charging for access to your products, or taking a cut for sales which take place in your 'virtual store' does not involve any social or political manipulation.
  - karmakaze 3y ago
    Yes right, I was primarily referring to the economic part of the term. There is also ongoing effort of platform owners to maintain their position which does fulfill the other part of the definition.

mvdtnz 3y ago

> I don't know how this argument can hold? Malls charge their tenant stores a fee to lease space. Why shouldn't app stores? Most of us don't object to Google charging a fee for each app sale (although I still think 30% is exorbitant). But they charge a fee for every transaction the app charges and I think that's absolutely obscene. The mall doesn't charge the shoe shop 30% of every pair of shoes they sell.

tiltowait 3y ago
If they didn't charge for IAP, then every dev would go "free"+IAP, and Google/Apple would get nothing.
- spywaregorilla 3y ago
  Which is precisely what they deserve
  - donkers 3y ago
    So they’re supposed to run all the infra and services for apps as a charity?
    - spywaregorilla 3y ago
      if they're putting up barriers to let other people do it as an alternative then yes
crazygringo 3y ago
It has to be the same rate across app purchase and in-app transactions. Otherwise every app will be free but charge a transaction to unlock its functionality.
- mvdtnz 3y ago
  And what's the excuse for Google getting a cut of every book an e-book reader sells? Or every monthly charge from a subscription based video service like Nebula?

javier_e06 3y ago

Is all fine and dandy the Mall analogy except that the are only 2 'Malls' in the world. Apple Store and Google Play Store. That kind of leverage has never existed before in the history of this world economy.

ajmurmann 3y ago
Is this from the parent not true? "Other vendors such as Amazon, Samsung and Microsoft happily ship their own app stores and competing app sets"
m4rtink 3y ago
East India Company ? Also had some rather negative effects.

kevingadd 3y ago

Charging rent based on square footage or location and charging a 30% tax on all the transactions that happen in your mall are pretty different.

neurostimulant 3y ago

Unlike google play, malls don't prevent their visitors to buy the same goods from stores outside the malls. Google play protect is known to remove apps installed from another source (e.g. fdroid) if the app is also available from google play: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37879935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37879935