4 ms·

I won't speak to cooking. But, gas central air heaters are much cheaper to operate than heat pumps in Phoenix, AZ. I wish it wasn't so environmentally speaking.

I won't speak to cooking. But, gas central air heaters are much cheaper to operate than heat pumps in Phoenix, AZ. I wish it wasn't so environmentally speaking. But from a cost point of view, its better to use natural gas than electricity.

NewJazz 3y ago
How?
jeffbee 3y ago
That's just a policy choice. There's no law of physics that makes an electric heat pump cost more.
- legitster 3y ago
  An electric heat pump by nature has a lot more parts. A gas furnace is just a few sensors, a burner, a fan, and a box to do it in.
  - bob1029 3y ago
    > a fan I think you might be underestimating the # of components in a modern furnace.
    - legitster 3y ago
      I'm intentionally being reductive, but I have worked on several furnaces and gas furnaces are an order of magnitude simpler than their respective heat pump. ... gas furnace + A/C compressor is another story.
- infecto 3y ago
  How is that policy choice? Are be subsidizing the natural gas suppliers or adding fees to natty generation plants?
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    Retail prices of both electricity and mineral gas are highly regulated. They aren't market outcomes in any sense.
    - infecto 3y ago
      I live in Texas. At least for electricity it’s a fairly free market of prices. I would be surprised to learn natty gas is being heavily subsidized here too.
- ttt3ts 3y ago
  Actually it is physics and the market https://www.statista.com/statistics/220174/total-us-electricity-net-generation-by-fuel/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/220174/total-us-electric... a huge percentage of us electrical power is from natural gas. Natural gas to electricity to heat is a lot less efficient.
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    There's not even a physics reason why a heat pump needs to be electric. There are gas-fired heat pumps. There are even gas-fired refrigerators. These weird anti heat-pump memes are just being regurgitated by people who do not understand what they are talking about.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - adrianN 3y ago
    A modern gas turbine is around 50% efficient, give or take 10%. A modern heat pump has a COP of around 4, so burning gas to make electricity to run a heat pump is more efficient than burning gas to make heat.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
I can see heat pumps costing more than natural gas furnaces in cold regions, but I would not have expected it in Phoenix. Are electricity prices super high or gas prices super low?
- legitster 3y ago
  > gas prices super low EXTREMELY low. I was shocked in the PNW when we switched to a house with natural gas appliances how much we saved. In some cases they are not even superior appliances but you save so much money.

NewJazz 3y ago

How?

jeffbee 3y ago

That's just a policy choice. There's no law of physics that makes an electric heat pump cost more.

legitster 3y ago
An electric heat pump by nature has a lot more parts. A gas furnace is just a few sensors, a burner, a fan, and a box to do it in.
- bob1029 3y ago
  > a fan I think you might be underestimating the # of components in a modern furnace.
  - legitster 3y ago
    I'm intentionally being reductive, but I have worked on several furnaces and gas furnaces are an order of magnitude simpler than their respective heat pump. ... gas furnace + A/C compressor is another story.
infecto 3y ago
How is that policy choice? Are be subsidizing the natural gas suppliers or adding fees to natty generation plants?
- jeffbee 3y ago
  Retail prices of both electricity and mineral gas are highly regulated. They aren't market outcomes in any sense.
  - infecto 3y ago
    I live in Texas. At least for electricity it’s a fairly free market of prices. I would be surprised to learn natty gas is being heavily subsidized here too.
ttt3ts 3y ago
Actually it is physics and the market https://www.statista.com/statistics/220174/total-us-electricity-net-generation-by-fuel/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/220174/total-us-electric... a huge percentage of us electrical power is from natural gas. Natural gas to electricity to heat is a lot less efficient.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  There's not even a physics reason why a heat pump needs to be electric. There are gas-fired heat pumps. There are even gas-fired refrigerators. These weird anti heat-pump memes are just being regurgitated by people who do not understand what they are talking about.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- adrianN 3y ago
  A modern gas turbine is around 50% efficient, give or take 10%. A modern heat pump has a COP of around 4, so burning gas to make electricity to run a heat pump is more efficient than burning gas to make heat.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

I can see heat pumps costing more than natural gas furnaces in cold regions, but I would not have expected it in Phoenix. Are electricity prices super high or gas prices super low?

legitster 3y ago
> gas prices super low EXTREMELY low. I was shocked in the PNW when we switched to a house with natural gas appliances how much we saved. In some cases they are not even superior appliances but you save so much money.