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Stuff like this is why I’m glad Ken Kessey’s “one flew over the cuckoos nest” become popular and helped remove government mental hospitals from being a serious

Stuff like this is why I’m glad Ken Kessey’s “one flew over the cuckoos nest” become popular and helped remove government mental hospitals from being a serious consideration in the USA. This kid needs to be cultivated, not institutionalized. (Edit: never mind, seems he IS a menace to society)

A_Duck 3y ago
The headline glosses over "The court heard that Kurtaj had been violent while in custody with dozens of reports of injury or property damage."
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - Der_Einzige 3y ago
    Oh shit, okay his sentence makes sense. Somehow I missed this part of the article.
    - brvsft 3y ago
      Are you being facetious? Stalking and harassment alone wouldn't justify a life sentence.
  - CodesInChaos 3y ago
    Isn't that part talking about the 17 year old other member of lapsus$ who received the 18 month long Youth Rehabilitation Order?
  - loeg 3y ago
    That sentence is not talking about the headline hacker (Kurtaj).
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  Custody is violence. Most people respond with patience, because they understand deescalation is their best move. This person has Autism. I think it's not a leap to conclude that he simply doesn't understand that deescalation is the right move. He may not even realize or totally comprehend that deescalation is an option! If you want to convince me this person is a menace to society, then talk about his behavior before being arrested. What did he do then? Oh, that's right, he shared video of an unreleased game... Why should I, or any other person feel threatened?
  - LorenPechtel 3y ago
    I agree he doesn't understand--that's why he's in a mental hospital. He can't understand how to behave in society.
    - thomastjeffery 3y ago
      Can society understand how to behave around him? Has society even tried? I'm not working to give up that easily. This is a person with the rest of his life ahead of him; and that life has been locked in a room, and declared his responsibility.
      - 15457345234 3y ago
        All you're doing, in this interaction, is questioning endlessly. You don't have any proposals. How do you propose, exactly, that society handle a person that openly admits that they'll do whatever they see fit and decide for themselves what rules they'll follow? And we're not talking about minor rules and infractions, we're talking about major ones like 'don't be violent' and 'don't stalk and terrorize women' and 'don't run a doxxing website' and 'don't extort and steal' Answer me this: _why_ does society need to 'understand how to behave around him' ? What's the benefit to society? The guy stands up in court and basically says 'yeah I don't have any remorse and I'm gonna keep doing it because I don't think it's wrong' - why do we need to try and understand that more?
        3y ago
dghlsakjg 3y ago
Did you miss the part about assaulting staff and property destruction. What about the part where he continued hacking after being busted the first time and released on bail. Its pretty clear that the kid poses a danger and doesn't understand that he needs to stop. This isn't a youthful prank/indiscretion that went too far. This kid was on trial for causing millions in damages, and then did it again while on trial. Yeah, institutionalizing people has a horrendous history, but this kid is incredibly destructive, and has proven that cannot control himself or will go out of his way to do the wrong thing. The only viable alternative to a supervised medical setting is jail for him.
- serialNumber 3y ago
  being sentenced to life for hacking is out of proportion
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    He wasn’t sentenced to life. He was ordered to remain under supervised medical care until a doctor determines that he is mentally fit to stop causing harm. This is as a result of both his hacking, his assaults on caretakers and destruction of physical property. He also told the court that if he was released he would go right back to doing crimes.
    - RecycledEle 3y ago
      > He was ordered to remain under supervised medical care until a doctor determines that he is mentally fit to stop causing harm. What if his moral code is correct, and the court's moral code is wrong? (maybe it should be called the cult's moral code?)
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  Just because a company chooses to spend millions of dollars to "repair" damage does not mean that the damage itself should be valued the same. We are talking about companies with tens or hundreds of billions of dollars at their disposal. An executive could choose to spend $5 million on anything: that doesn't make the thing that valuable.
keep_reading 3y ago
You see all those homeless people? The tent cities? That's because they have nowhere to go anymore. A ton of those people are mentally ill. Yes, those mental hospitals were terribly run. But we need to create a safe place for these people. We can't just give up because of mistakes made in the past. https://www.civilbeat.org/2018/06/health-beat-bring-back-the-mental-hospitals/ https://www.civilbeat.org/2018/06/health-beat-bring-back-the...
- theultdev 3y ago
  all those homeless is incredibly generalizing, there's many reasons to be homeless. but the top ones are drugs and mental illness. many are drug addicted, they would have somewhere to go but they opted out of society (well, they aren't in the forest so not full opt-out) but yes a combination of state run rehab / mental hospitals seems to be the only solution, but is it done by force? if it's not forced you'll have a hell of a time getting people to go. if it is, you are now rounding up potentially unwilling people and shipping them to a facility.
  - keep_reading 3y ago
    > but is it done by force? Yes, of course. Do you really think most of these people even in the care of their own family would have complete agency over their lives? No, they'd be declared unfit and their Power of Attorney would be delegated to someone else.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    > all those homeless is incredibly generalizing, there's many reasons to be homeless. but the top ones are drugs and mental illness. Do you know that? In the US, I read (several years ago) that the top reason was losing your home to medical bills.
boeingUH60 3y ago
The mental hospitals were closed. Now the mentally ill are largely homeless or in prison. They closed something bad and brought no alternative because it’s easy for a politician to score points by appearing to solve problems in the short term but providing no long term solutions.

A_Duck 3y ago

The headline glosses over "The court heard that Kurtaj had been violent while in custody with dozens of reports of injury or property damage."

DonHopkins 3y ago
[flagged]
- Der_Einzige 3y ago
  Oh shit, okay his sentence makes sense. Somehow I missed this part of the article.
  - brvsft 3y ago
    Are you being facetious? Stalking and harassment alone wouldn't justify a life sentence.
- CodesInChaos 3y ago
  Isn't that part talking about the 17 year old other member of lapsus$ who received the 18 month long Youth Rehabilitation Order?
- loeg 3y ago
  That sentence is not talking about the headline hacker (Kurtaj).
thomastjeffery 3y ago
Custody is violence. Most people respond with patience, because they understand deescalation is their best move. This person has Autism. I think it's not a leap to conclude that he simply doesn't understand that deescalation is the right move. He may not even realize or totally comprehend that deescalation is an option! If you want to convince me this person is a menace to society, then talk about his behavior before being arrested. What did he do then? Oh, that's right, he shared video of an unreleased game... Why should I, or any other person feel threatened?
- LorenPechtel 3y ago
  I agree he doesn't understand--that's why he's in a mental hospital. He can't understand how to behave in society.
  - thomastjeffery 3y ago
    Can society understand how to behave around him? Has society even tried? I'm not working to give up that easily. This is a person with the rest of his life ahead of him; and that life has been locked in a room, and declared his responsibility.
    - 15457345234 3y ago
      All you're doing, in this interaction, is questioning endlessly. You don't have any proposals. How do you propose, exactly, that society handle a person that openly admits that they'll do whatever they see fit and decide for themselves what rules they'll follow? And we're not talking about minor rules and infractions, we're talking about major ones like 'don't be violent' and 'don't stalk and terrorize women' and 'don't run a doxxing website' and 'don't extort and steal' Answer me this: _why_ does society need to 'understand how to behave around him' ? What's the benefit to society? The guy stands up in court and basically says 'yeah I don't have any remorse and I'm gonna keep doing it because I don't think it's wrong' - why do we need to try and understand that more?
      - 3y ago

dghlsakjg 3y ago

Did you miss the part about assaulting staff and property destruction. What about the part where he continued hacking after being busted the first time and released on bail. Its pretty clear that the kid poses a danger and doesn't understand that he needs to stop. This isn't a youthful prank/indiscretion that went too far. This kid was on trial for causing millions in damages, and then did it again while on trial. Yeah, institutionalizing people has a horrendous history, but this kid is incredibly destructive, and has proven that cannot control himself or will go out of his way to do the wrong thing. The only viable alternative to a supervised medical setting is jail for him.

serialNumber 3y ago
being sentenced to life for hacking is out of proportion
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  He wasn’t sentenced to life. He was ordered to remain under supervised medical care until a doctor determines that he is mentally fit to stop causing harm. This is as a result of both his hacking, his assaults on caretakers and destruction of physical property. He also told the court that if he was released he would go right back to doing crimes.
  - RecycledEle 3y ago
    > He was ordered to remain under supervised medical care until a doctor determines that he is mentally fit to stop causing harm. What if his moral code is correct, and the court's moral code is wrong? (maybe it should be called the cult's moral code?)
thomastjeffery 3y ago
Just because a company chooses to spend millions of dollars to "repair" damage does not mean that the damage itself should be valued the same. We are talking about companies with tens or hundreds of billions of dollars at their disposal. An executive could choose to spend $5 million on anything: that doesn't make the thing that valuable.

keep_reading 3y ago

You see all those homeless people? The tent cities? That's because they have nowhere to go anymore. A ton of those people are mentally ill. Yes, those mental hospitals were terribly run. But we need to create a safe place for these people. We can't just give up because of mistakes made in the past. https://www.civilbeat.org/2018/06/health-beat-bring-back-the-mental-hospitals/ https://www.civilbeat.org/2018/06/health-beat-bring-back-the...

theultdev 3y ago
all those homeless is incredibly generalizing, there's many reasons to be homeless. but the top ones are drugs and mental illness. many are drug addicted, they would have somewhere to go but they opted out of society (well, they aren't in the forest so not full opt-out) but yes a combination of state run rehab / mental hospitals seems to be the only solution, but is it done by force? if it's not forced you'll have a hell of a time getting people to go. if it is, you are now rounding up potentially unwilling people and shipping them to a facility.
- keep_reading 3y ago
  > but is it done by force? Yes, of course. Do you really think most of these people even in the care of their own family would have complete agency over their lives? No, they'd be declared unfit and their Power of Attorney would be delegated to someone else.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > all those homeless is incredibly generalizing, there's many reasons to be homeless. but the top ones are drugs and mental illness. Do you know that? In the US, I read (several years ago) that the top reason was losing your home to medical bills.

boeingUH60 3y ago

The mental hospitals were closed. Now the mentally ill are largely homeless or in prison. They closed something bad and brought no alternative because it’s easy for a politician to score points by appearing to solve problems in the short term but providing no long term solutions.