3 ms·

Is there any evidence of this being a problem? Is antiviral resistance more prevalent in France (or other countries that don't require a doctor to prescribe med

Is there any evidence of this being a problem? Is antiviral resistance more prevalent in France (or other countries that don't require a doctor to prescribe medication of this nature) than in the U.S.?

ceejayoz 3y ago
Evidence, yes. Google turns up a lot more on antibiotic use than antiviral; France has had similar issues there. (I suspect the difference in availability reflects the faster spread of viral disease, making per-country isolation stats tougher. See, for example, how fast Omicron went world-wide.) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651446/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651446/ > In France, antimicrobial consumption (AC) has been high for many decades in both hospitals and the community. Consumption within the community is 30% higher than the mean European rate and 2–3 times higher than the rates in countries with very low consumption and resistance levels, such as Scandinavian countries. Given the similar mechanisms, they're likely to have the same issues with antivirals as they do with antibiotics.
- torstenvl 3y ago
  You said the answer was "yes," but the rest of your response indicates that the answer is "no." Dishonesty is not cool.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    We have evidence antiviral existence exists. We have evidence antimicrobial resistance stems from overuse and incomplete courses of the medications. We have evidence that easy access leads to more usage of these agents. I provided specific evidence of France's antimicrobial consumption being higher than the rest of Europe. What evidence would you accept? Is there evidence you'd like to highlight in the other direction?
    - torstenvl 3y ago
      >>> But overuse of them will cause antiviral resistance. >> Is there any evidence of this being a problem? Is antiviral resistance more prevalent in France...? > Evidence, yes. Either present evidence that France has increased rates of antiviral resistance, or stop gaslighting. Dishonesty is not acceptable behavior, and is not excused by your mere desire to answer a different question about antibiotic resistance.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Dishonesty is not acceptable behavior Drop this crap and just debate like an adult. You may have a point. But it’s difficult to see if you’re flipping out in the corner.
        torstenvl 3y ago
        This may be a cultural difference. From my perspective, it is not adult to tolerate dishonesty. Being clear that such behavior is unacceptable is not flipping out, it is a social obligation. When people are evasive, or pretend to answer one question by talking about a different one, that is not debating like an adult. It is toxic and prevents genuine discussion.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > it is not adult to tolerate dishonesty Flippantly calling something dishonest when it may be miscommunication signals a tolerance for dishonesty. I would be upset if someone said I were dishonest, because I’m not. Someone who is commonly accused of dishonesty may be more ready to level that argument unsupported. See what I did there? Do you see why that is not only counterproductive, but also immature? If you really think someone is simply lying, downvote and move on. Self-congratulatory behaviour adds nothing to the discussion.
        torstenvl 3y ago
        I was not flippant. I explained exactly why the behavior was inappropriate: presenting evidence of antibiotic resistance as though it were evidence of antiviral resistance. It is not a miscommunication, as ceejayoz explicitly recognized the distinction before proceeding. As far as the innuendo that I'm projecting or something, you are entitled to believe whatever you like. As for me and my interactions both in real life and online, I absolutely will not tolerate people who lie. Whether you do or not is up to you, I suppose.

ceejayoz 3y ago

Evidence, yes. Google turns up a lot more on antibiotic use than antiviral; France has had similar issues there. (I suspect the difference in availability reflects the faster spread of viral disease, making per-country isolation stats tougher. See, for example, how fast Omicron went world-wide.) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651446/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651446/ > In France, antimicrobial consumption (AC) has been high for many decades in both hospitals and the community. Consumption within the community is 30% higher than the mean European rate and 2–3 times higher than the rates in countries with very low consumption and resistance levels, such as Scandinavian countries. Given the similar mechanisms, they're likely to have the same issues with antivirals as they do with antibiotics.

torstenvl 3y ago
You said the answer was "yes," but the rest of your response indicates that the answer is "no." Dishonesty is not cool.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  We have evidence antiviral existence exists. We have evidence antimicrobial resistance stems from overuse and incomplete courses of the medications. We have evidence that easy access leads to more usage of these agents. I provided specific evidence of France's antimicrobial consumption being higher than the rest of Europe. What evidence would you accept? Is there evidence you'd like to highlight in the other direction?
  - torstenvl 3y ago
    >>> But overuse of them will cause antiviral resistance. >> Is there any evidence of this being a problem? Is antiviral resistance more prevalent in France...? > Evidence, yes. Either present evidence that France has increased rates of antiviral resistance, or stop gaslighting. Dishonesty is not acceptable behavior, and is not excused by your mere desire to answer a different question about antibiotic resistance.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > Dishonesty is not acceptable behavior Drop this crap and just debate like an adult. You may have a point. But it’s difficult to see if you’re flipping out in the corner.
      - torstenvl 3y ago
        This may be a cultural difference. From my perspective, it is not adult to tolerate dishonesty. Being clear that such behavior is unacceptable is not flipping out, it is a social obligation. When people are evasive, or pretend to answer one question by talking about a different one, that is not debating like an adult. It is toxic and prevents genuine discussion.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > it is not adult to tolerate dishonesty Flippantly calling something dishonest when it may be miscommunication signals a tolerance for dishonesty. I would be upset if someone said I were dishonest, because I’m not. Someone who is commonly accused of dishonesty may be more ready to level that argument unsupported. See what I did there? Do you see why that is not only counterproductive, but also immature? If you really think someone is simply lying, downvote and move on. Self-congratulatory behaviour adds nothing to the discussion.
        torstenvl 3y ago
        I was not flippant. I explained exactly why the behavior was inappropriate: presenting evidence of antibiotic resistance as though it were evidence of antiviral resistance. It is not a miscommunication, as ceejayoz explicitly recognized the distinction before proceeding. As far as the innuendo that I'm projecting or something, you are entitled to believe whatever you like. As for me and my interactions both in real life and online, I absolutely will not tolerate people who lie. Whether you do or not is up to you, I suppose.