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It’s so crazy how my vaporware does like 99% of my driving for me every day. I guess I am living in a vapor world where I happily pay $200/mo for vapor.

LightBug1 3y ago
No insult intended, but you're literally beta ... good luck with that, honestly. But if you cannot see the issue with what has been promised, and what has been delivered, you're not living in vapour world, you're living in kool-aid world. You should be insulted, but instead you drink it up. Again, no offense, you make your choices, everyone else makes theres, and the world moves on ... but the FSD saga has been an absolute sh1tshow by any reasonable definition.
- gfodor 3y ago
  You should try thinking about why the term vaporware has the word “vapor” in it, and what it’s intended to describe.
  - LightBug1 3y ago
    Would condensed-vapourware be more preferred by you? vapourware /ˈveɪpəwɛː/ nouninformal•Computing noun: vapourware; noun: vaporware software or hardware that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, either because it is only a concept or because it is still being written or designed.
    - gfodor 3y ago
      I see, so you'd classify Tesla's FSD as software that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, because it is only a concept or is still being written or designed. Got it.
      - LightBug1 3y ago
        Correct. Glad we're getting somewhere here. Very much still being written and designed. The fact that people are paying for a beta product is problematic to me, but that goes back to the snake-oil argument - a phenomenon well understood over time. Hence, let's shake hands on: condensed-vapourware. Good day.
        gfodor 3y ago
        No, by your definition any software released with bugs in a beta program users can pay to be a part of, while it's being developed, is vaporware. Under that definition you'd need to invent another word for what currently constitutes the actual meaning of vaporware, which is software that has not been released to real users. (Ie, software that for all intents and purposes doesn't exist, ie, its vaporous.)
        LightBug1 3y ago
        You're just being silly now. One word. Robotaxi. And that's not even the start of it. Is FSD feature complete but with bugs for just basic everyday use? No. And hasn't been for years. It's been revised and messed around since the start and is nowhere near ready for primetime, and possibly a decade or two away from what was promised near a decade ago. I understand development processes, but not while you, me, or our families are on-board. If you're cool being the guinnea pig? Cool, be a guinnea pig. It's a free country, but that will not change my opinon about Tesla's. Let's end this now. You love Tesla's and FSD. Cool, good for you. I think their technology and engineers are impressive, but their quality as a carmaker, organisation, and their design language are absolutely sh1t ... (and I'm an EV fan, so don't go there). Agree to disagree.
        gfodor 3y ago
        That's fair. I don't 'love' FSD, I just think ultimately what is going on here is Tesla has chosen a very different, more challenging path. They are more likely to fail than their competitors at this for this reason, but if they succeed, they will have a far cheaper, more general purpose solution for autonomous navigation. They decided to make that bet. If they were going to bolt LiDAR on their cars 10 years ago, I don't think we'd be seeing them behind to the degree they are now.
- renewiltord 3y ago
  The thing I've noticed is that people who buy Teslas love their car and people who don't hate it. It actually reminds me of the iPhone. Everyone who bought it loved it and there were lots of people online talking about how shit it was.
itsoktocry 3y ago
>It’s so crazy how my vaporware does like 99% of my driving for me every day. There's no point lying about how finicky it is, or the number of disengagements you encounter. There's too much evidence to the contrary. Recently one of the biggest FSD proponents on Twitter put out, essentially, a promotional video for FSD, and it showed multiple disengagements and an incredibly dangerous blown stop sign. Nobody cares that half your commute you can sit there pretending not to drive down a highway. That's not full self driving.
- thepasswordis 3y ago
  At this point I don’t understand what the Tesla haters are even talking about. I have the software. I use it daily. I am happy with it. Somebody in twitter did a dangerous demonstration. This doesn’t change much. Let’s talk about a different technology and maybe that could help you understand this: There was a time when consumer drone tech would be looked at as “vaporware”. Almost certainly somebody in the 90s advertised something looking functionally like a DJI phantom and never delivered on it. Pretty much ever you robot I got advertised as a child comes to mind. If somebody took a DJI phantom and crashed it into a building, does that make the current, existing, very real technology into “vaporware” in your mind? There was a time when self driving tech was also vaporware, but that time has passed. Somebody using existing, very real technology in a stupid way doesn’t mean that it suddenly doesn’t exist.
- chikitabanana 3y ago
  I'm interested - can you link this?
  - ra7 3y ago
    https://twitter.com/elaifresh/status/1727889381309239731 https://twitter.com/elaifresh/status/1727889381309239731
- ra7 3y ago
  > Recently one of the biggest FSD proponents on Twitter put out, essentially, a promotional video for FSD, and it showed multiple disengagements and an incredibly dangerous blown stop sign. Don't forget, it was actually a comparison between Waymo and Tesla in SF. They tried so hard to show Tesla was better, but it was embarrassing how flat out dangerous it was. Here's the compilation: https://twitter.com/elaifresh/status/1727889381309239731 https://twitter.com/elaifresh/status/1727889381309239731
minwcnt5 3y ago
The whole point of self-driving, and why it's hard, is to handle that 1%. Nobody is saying you shouldn't be thrilled at the product or that it's not worth $200/mo to you. But it's not autonomous driving. It's not a robotaxi. You're paying for something else. The vaporware comment is in reference to Elon Musk's robotaxi claims -- he sold the product as something it isn't.

LightBug1 3y ago

No insult intended, but you're literally beta ... good luck with that, honestly. But if you cannot see the issue with what has been promised, and what has been delivered, you're not living in vapour world, you're living in kool-aid world. You should be insulted, but instead you drink it up. Again, no offense, you make your choices, everyone else makes theres, and the world moves on ... but the FSD saga has been an absolute sh1tshow by any reasonable definition.

gfodor 3y ago
You should try thinking about why the term vaporware has the word “vapor” in it, and what it’s intended to describe.
- LightBug1 3y ago
  Would condensed-vapourware be more preferred by you? vapourware /ˈveɪpəwɛː/ nouninformal•Computing noun: vapourware; noun: vaporware software or hardware that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, either because it is only a concept or because it is still being written or designed.
  - gfodor 3y ago
    I see, so you'd classify Tesla's FSD as software that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, because it is only a concept or is still being written or designed. Got it.
    - LightBug1 3y ago
      Correct. Glad we're getting somewhere here. Very much still being written and designed. The fact that people are paying for a beta product is problematic to me, but that goes back to the snake-oil argument - a phenomenon well understood over time. Hence, let's shake hands on: condensed-vapourware. Good day.
      - gfodor 3y ago
        No, by your definition any software released with bugs in a beta program users can pay to be a part of, while it's being developed, is vaporware. Under that definition you'd need to invent another word for what currently constitutes the actual meaning of vaporware, which is software that has not been released to real users. (Ie, software that for all intents and purposes doesn't exist, ie, its vaporous.)
        LightBug1 3y ago
        You're just being silly now. One word. Robotaxi. And that's not even the start of it. Is FSD feature complete but with bugs for just basic everyday use? No. And hasn't been for years. It's been revised and messed around since the start and is nowhere near ready for primetime, and possibly a decade or two away from what was promised near a decade ago. I understand development processes, but not while you, me, or our families are on-board. If you're cool being the guinnea pig? Cool, be a guinnea pig. It's a free country, but that will not change my opinon about Tesla's. Let's end this now. You love Tesla's and FSD. Cool, good for you. I think their technology and engineers are impressive, but their quality as a carmaker, organisation, and their design language are absolutely sh1t ... (and I'm an EV fan, so don't go there). Agree to disagree.
        gfodor 3y ago
        That's fair. I don't 'love' FSD, I just think ultimately what is going on here is Tesla has chosen a very different, more challenging path. They are more likely to fail than their competitors at this for this reason, but if they succeed, they will have a far cheaper, more general purpose solution for autonomous navigation. They decided to make that bet. If they were going to bolt LiDAR on their cars 10 years ago, I don't think we'd be seeing them behind to the degree they are now.
renewiltord 3y ago
The thing I've noticed is that people who buy Teslas love their car and people who don't hate it. It actually reminds me of the iPhone. Everyone who bought it loved it and there were lots of people online talking about how shit it was.

itsoktocry 3y ago

>It’s so crazy how my vaporware does like 99% of my driving for me every day. There's no point lying about how finicky it is, or the number of disengagements you encounter. There's too much evidence to the contrary. Recently one of the biggest FSD proponents on Twitter put out, essentially, a promotional video for FSD, and it showed multiple disengagements and an incredibly dangerous blown stop sign. Nobody cares that half your commute you can sit there pretending not to drive down a highway. That's not full self driving.

thepasswordis 3y ago
At this point I don’t understand what the Tesla haters are even talking about. I have the software. I use it daily. I am happy with it. Somebody in twitter did a dangerous demonstration. This doesn’t change much. Let’s talk about a different technology and maybe that could help you understand this: There was a time when consumer drone tech would be looked at as “vaporware”. Almost certainly somebody in the 90s advertised something looking functionally like a DJI phantom and never delivered on it. Pretty much ever you robot I got advertised as a child comes to mind. If somebody took a DJI phantom and crashed it into a building, does that make the current, existing, very real technology into “vaporware” in your mind? There was a time when self driving tech was also vaporware, but that time has passed. Somebody using existing, very real technology in a stupid way doesn’t mean that it suddenly doesn’t exist.
chikitabanana 3y ago
I'm interested - can you link this?
- ra7 3y ago
  https://twitter.com/elaifresh/status/1727889381309239731 https://twitter.com/elaifresh/status/1727889381309239731
ra7 3y ago
> Recently one of the biggest FSD proponents on Twitter put out, essentially, a promotional video for FSD, and it showed multiple disengagements and an incredibly dangerous blown stop sign. Don't forget, it was actually a comparison between Waymo and Tesla in SF. They tried so hard to show Tesla was better, but it was embarrassing how flat out dangerous it was. Here's the compilation: https://twitter.com/elaifresh/status/1727889381309239731 https://twitter.com/elaifresh/status/1727889381309239731

minwcnt5 3y ago

The whole point of self-driving, and why it's hard, is to handle that 1%. Nobody is saying you shouldn't be thrilled at the product or that it's not worth $200/mo to you. But it's not autonomous driving. It's not a robotaxi. You're paying for something else. The vaporware comment is in reference to Elon Musk's robotaxi claims -- he sold the product as something it isn't.