4 ms·

War in Ukraine Has China Cashing In

19 points by mikhael 3y ago

oldpersonintx 3y ago
incredibly cynical to not recognize the tentacles the US MIC has extended into this conflict (and others) also I mean, you literally have politicians talking up military aid as an indirect US jobs program
- alephnerd 3y ago
  It's war. War always has a downstream technological and economic impact. Before the US began supporting Ukraine in 2022, Russia was actively testing it's own next-gen weapons platforms in Donbas, which lead to the downing of MH17 [0] and the development of Turkiye's drone warfare program [1] as Ukraine couldn't afford (edit: was unable to get weapons transfers as NATO did not want to escalate) American weaponry so they went with Turkiye. If the US didn't support Ukraine, then why should non-treaty American Partners like India, Vietnam, Philippines, Colombia, Saudi Arabia, etc align with the US? [0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 [1] - https://www.fpri.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/turkeys-response-to-the-russia-ukraine-crisis-1.pdf https://www.fpri.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/turkeys-resp...
  - riku_iki 3y ago
    > Ukraine couldn't afford American weaponry so they went with Turkiye. US refused selling weapons to Ukraine because didn't want to escalate.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      Correct. I brainfarted. Edited
- consumer451 3y ago
  It would also be incredibly politically blind to not identify the effects of Putin declaring to the Duma that he wants to rebuild the USSR. [0] Similarly, it would be naive not to identify the influence of petro-funded Wahhabism spreading Jihad throughout the Muslim world. [1] Another political alignment which somehow missed the conversion is the one which today, in December of 2023, prevents Maersk (and the rest of the global economy from sailing through the Suez canal) while Moscow's tankers sail through with no issues. [2] [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26769481 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26769481 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Yemen_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Yemen_relations [3] Let's skip the CCP for convience
  - DiogenesKynikos 3y ago
    > the effects of Putin declaring to the Duma that he wants to rebuild the USSR. [0] Where does the article say that Putin made such a declaration?
alephnerd 3y ago
It's interesting to see how compared to 30 years ago, countries are now much more self sufficient technologically. Countries like China, Russia, Iran, India, Turkiye, South Korea, Mexico, Vietnam, Brazil, Egypt, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Poland, etc at the very least have industrial and technological capabilities similar to what the US, Western Europe, and Japan had in the 90s-2000s, and can continue to muddle on, or in some cases even reach parity. It's similar to the catch-up that happened globally in the 1950s-60s and the 1890s-1920s.
hooverd 3y ago
https://archive.is/5wi2z https://archive.is/5wi2z
amai 3y ago
This recent study (originally in german) paints a different picture: """ - With the large-scale war of aggression against Ukraine since February 2022, the framework conditions for Russian-Chinese cooperation have fundamentally changed. Economic cooperation with China has become vital for Russia. - Russian-Chinese trade has increased sharply since Moscow's invasion began. On the other hand, Chinese investments in Russia, which were already low, have continued to shrink since then. - Fossil fuels remain the backbone of Russian-Chinese economic cooperation, but the infrastructure for a faster expansion of Russian exports is lacking. - Russia's arms exports to China have been declining for several years. China, for its part, is exporting more and more dual-use goods to Russia, which are urgently needed by the Russian defense industry. - Russian-Chinese cooperation in the IT industry has declined sharply since the start of the war of aggression against Ukraine, as Chinese digital companies fear US secondary sanctions. - Russia's trade with China is largely conducted in yuan. However, Russia continues to rely on the US dollar for trade with other countries. """ https://www-swp--berlin-org.translate.goog/en/publication/russisch-chinesische-wirtschaftsbeziehungen?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-swp--berlin-org.translate.goog/en/publication/ru...

19 points by mikhael 3y ago

incredibly cynical to not recognize the tentacles the US MIC has extended into this conflict (and others) also I mean, you literally have politicians talking up military aid as an indirect US jobs program

alephnerd 3y ago
It's war. War always has a downstream technological and economic impact. Before the US began supporting Ukraine in 2022, Russia was actively testing it's own next-gen weapons platforms in Donbas, which lead to the downing of MH17 [0] and the development of Turkiye's drone warfare program [1] as Ukraine couldn't afford (edit: was unable to get weapons transfers as NATO did not want to escalate) American weaponry so they went with Turkiye. If the US didn't support Ukraine, then why should non-treaty American Partners like India, Vietnam, Philippines, Colombia, Saudi Arabia, etc align with the US? [0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 [1] - https://www.fpri.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/turkeys-response-to-the-russia-ukraine-crisis-1.pdf https://www.fpri.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/turkeys-resp...
- riku_iki 3y ago
  > Ukraine couldn't afford American weaponry so they went with Turkiye. US refused selling weapons to Ukraine because didn't want to escalate.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    Correct. I brainfarted. Edited
consumer451 3y ago
It would also be incredibly politically blind to not identify the effects of Putin declaring to the Duma that he wants to rebuild the USSR. [0] Similarly, it would be naive not to identify the influence of petro-funded Wahhabism spreading Jihad throughout the Muslim world. [1] Another political alignment which somehow missed the conversion is the one which today, in December of 2023, prevents Maersk (and the rest of the global economy from sailing through the Suez canal) while Moscow's tankers sail through with no issues. [2] [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26769481 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26769481 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Yemen_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Yemen_relations [3] Let's skip the CCP for convience
- DiogenesKynikos 3y ago
  > the effects of Putin declaring to the Duma that he wants to rebuild the USSR. [0] Where does the article say that Putin made such a declaration?

alephnerd 3y ago

It's interesting to see how compared to 30 years ago, countries are now much more self sufficient technologically. Countries like China, Russia, Iran, India, Turkiye, South Korea, Mexico, Vietnam, Brazil, Egypt, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Poland, etc at the very least have industrial and technological capabilities similar to what the US, Western Europe, and Japan had in the 90s-2000s, and can continue to muddle on, or in some cases even reach parity. It's similar to the catch-up that happened globally in the 1950s-60s and the 1890s-1920s.

hooverd 3y ago

https://archive.is/5wi2z https://archive.is/5wi2z

amai 3y ago

This recent study (originally in german) paints a different picture: """ - With the large-scale war of aggression against Ukraine since February 2022, the framework conditions for Russian-Chinese cooperation have fundamentally changed. Economic cooperation with China has become vital for Russia. - Russian-Chinese trade has increased sharply since Moscow's invasion began. On the other hand, Chinese investments in Russia, which were already low, have continued to shrink since then. - Fossil fuels remain the backbone of Russian-Chinese economic cooperation, but the infrastructure for a faster expansion of Russian exports is lacking. - Russia's arms exports to China have been declining for several years. China, for its part, is exporting more and more dual-use goods to Russia, which are urgently needed by the Russian defense industry. - Russian-Chinese cooperation in the IT industry has declined sharply since the start of the war of aggression against Ukraine, as Chinese digital companies fear US secondary sanctions. - Russia's trade with China is largely conducted in yuan. However, Russia continues to rely on the US dollar for trade with other countries. """ https://www-swp--berlin-org.translate.goog/en/publication/russisch-chinesische-wirtschaftsbeziehungen?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-swp--berlin-org.translate.goog/en/publication/ru...