6 ms·

The US is so weird. Elsewhere, like Canada, pseudoephedrine is readily available without needing to present any ID. I always bring some with me when I travel ju

The US is so weird. Elsewhere, like Canada, pseudoephedrine is readily available without needing to present any ID. I always bring some with me when I travel just in case. Everyone knows phenylephrine is useless.

paulcole 3y ago
> Everyone knows phenylephrine is useless. Easy to say now once it’s proved.
- CamperBob2 3y ago
  If it took that long for regulators and the drug industry to figure out that phenylephrine is worthless, I certainly don't hold out much hope for more advanced cures. The same is true if corruption rather than incompetence is the explanation.
- jtbayly 3y ago
  Except anyone could have known it did nothing for them. My sister and I confirmed this many years ago.
- DHPersonal 3y ago
  I recall it being the year it came out when I heard it was useless.
- technothrasher 3y ago
  It's been pretty common knowledge for years that it doesn't work. That doesn't mean that common knowledge was right, but it certainly isn't a case of everybody only now claiming they knew it.
- Runways 3y ago
  Actually, it's funny. My parents aren't Libertarian, but they kinda lean that way in terms of not trusting the government - etc. When they restricted pseudoephedrine, they immediately were suspicious about phenylephrine and eventually came to the conclusion that it doesn't do anything. They'd demand pseudoephedrine and claim that phenylephrine was just a way to restrict pseudoephedrine while allowing pharma to rip us off, yada yada. That's where my strong disdain for phenylephrine came from. Once I was in college buying my own medicine, I came to the same conclusion that one worked and one didn't. Pseudoephedrine was just a miracle drug to me, I remember stopping taking it too early and feeling blegh within hours.
- maccard 3y ago
  We've known for ages - https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2015/10/26/the-popular-over-the-counter-cold-medicine-that-science-says-doesnt-work/?sh=417922b84753 https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2015/10/26/the-pop...
- HumblyTossed 3y ago
  Everyone who is easily congested already knew it.
- stephen_g 3y ago
  Nope, I remember the first time I tried to use a phenylephrine based cold tablet it after the big uproar about putting pseudoephedrine behind the counter - this is more than a decade ago. I’ve always had relief from pseudoephedrine but I felt absolutely no effect from the phenylephrine tablets (apart from the paracetamol they also contain, but zero decongestant effect). I looked it up and other people were reporting the same, I was so annoyed I never bought it again and from then always ask for the real thing. Weird thing was the pharmacists always want to know why you’re asking (even beyond doing the drivers license check) and I had to say every time that the off the shelf tablets do literally do nothing for me.
- michaelcampbell 3y ago
  It never worked for me, but I thought that was a "because me" thing. It makes me both exhausted and unable to sleep, and although I'm not very good at very many things, I'm generally an exceptional sleeper so this was something I wasn't willing to experiment on dosage experiments to make it work.
- karaterobot 3y ago
  Ha. I think everyone who tried it said this. I think every conversation I've had with a sick person has included the phrase "this over the counter stuff doesn't do anything". The most cursory search of the internet finds an article from 2006 with the literal phrase "There's just one problem. Phenylephrine doesn't work, and most in the pharmaceutical industry know it." https://reason.com/2006/12/21/step-away-from-the-cold-medici/ https://reason.com/2006/12/21/step-away-from-the-cold-medici... And 2005 is the year Phenylephrine replaced Pseudoephedrine, so it's not like it took anyone any time at all to figure this out.
mdorazio 3y ago
In case you're not aware, it's because pseudoephedrine is used to make meth. As for why it's restricted in the US and not Canada, the DOJ believes that meth production in Canada is relatively low compared to the US [1]. [1] https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs13/13853/product.htm https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs13/13853/product.ht...
- singleshot_ 3y ago
  I think the implication is that the rest of the world isn’t overrun by tweakers?
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  As a pedantic correction was used to make meth. Once the supply ran out it became just one more step to make whatever it needed other ways. Practically speaking, lots of things are used to make meth. I had to give ID last time I bought acetone. Which is crazy for all sorts of big brother reasons. I’m not a chemist, but as I understand it, meth isn’t too often made with PE anymore, yet, it sits behind the counter forever now.
  - saghm 3y ago
    Obviously this isn't reflective of any actual history, but in the first season of Breaking Bad, one of the early innovations that the main characters made to how they produced meth was coming up with a method that avoided needing PE. If I remember correctly, they instead used methylamine, which is an amusingly smart choice by the writers because it literally starts with the word "meth" but has absolutely no utility when making meth, so they didn't have to worry about people getting any ideas from the show.
    - jaggederest 3y ago
      It's used in the P2P method and is a DEA List 1 chemical. It's definitely real chemistry, not fake chemistry. Much of the chemistry on the show was close enough while being vague enough not to actually help anyone who couldn't read the voluminous research papers on the matter.
soylentcola 3y ago
But not in (at least much of) the UK apparently. I was on vacation in England and Scotland a year ago and many in our group came down with an annoying cold. Every chemist had piles of phenylephrine tablets but no pseudoephedrine (or even phenylephrine nasal spray, which works quite well). I did not have a fun time explaining to my sniffly girlfriend why these were all trash and there was no point in buying them - she just wanted some relief and couldn't understand how I would somehow know better than all the different drugs on the shelves. It made me feel like some nutty conspiracy theorist, insisting that the medicine was all phony. Thankfully it didn't derail the trip, and in the end I found some other nasal spray that sort-of worked.
- maccard 3y ago
  Pharmacies in the UK absolutely do stock pseudoephedrine. It's usually behind the counter and you have to ask for it. "Sinutab, or own brand, without pain relief" is what you're looking for, for anyone reading.
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- stephen_g 3y ago
  I’ve bought pseudoephedrine tablets at Boots on a trip but I think I did have to ask at the counter.
- jcadam 3y ago
  I've found plain 'ol saline nasal spray works well enough... and, a hot toddy helps clear the sinuses.
  - spookie 3y ago
    Mint tea too! Or some Fisherman's Friends
pajko 3y ago
That's strange and I was surprised reading in the article that phenylephrine is ineffective. Basically this is the only combo that works for me all the time: https://www.drugs.com/mtm/pheniramine-and-phenylephrine.html https://www.drugs.com/mtm/pheniramine-and-phenylephrine.html It's available as Neo Citran in the EU. Tried a couple of other meds, neither worked, nor the parts of the combo separately (combined with other stuff). Only side effect is that it knocks me out a bit, making me feel tired. At least falling asleep is easier. It's the side effect of pheniramine.
542458 3y ago
> Everyone knows phenylephrine is useless. It’s pretty easy to find phenylephrine on the shelves in Canada (I’d say about half the drugs use it vs pseudoephrine) so obviously somebody is buying it. Anecdotally, I always tell people to read the labels and only buy pseudoephrine based medication, and it’s consistently a surprise to people - I don’t think the difference was anywhere near universally known.
- dreamcompiler 3y ago
  People buy homeopathic remedies by the truckload too. They are even less effective than phenylephrine. The average person has no clue how to evaluate medicines. Stupid laws should not impede those of us who do have said clue.
dang 3y ago
Please keep nationalistic flamebait out of your comments here. It leads to nationalistic flamewar (in the general case—not in this thread, but that was by luck). https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- xyzzy_plugh 3y ago
  I'm puzzled by this comment. The first thing that sprung to mind when reading the article was how terrible it was to be treated like a drug abusing criminal whenever we tried to purchase anything containing pseudoephedrine in the United States. Pharmacist can't figure out how to scan an out of country license, makes you get your passport. Can't figure out how to scan your passport, makes you get additional ID. Can't figure out what to do with additional ID, shrugs and says sorry you can't have this medicine. I'm sorry, what??? Is this a joke? I was turned away at the pharmacy buying cold medication? Don't even get me started about prescriptions that family members literally depend on for their livelihoods and the continuous monthly battle to keep those prescriptions filled. And I'm not just referring to stimulants. Insofar as I can tell the prevalence of phenylephrine is due solely to this dumb policy under the umbrella of The dumb War on Drugs. If this is somehow nationalistic flamebait, or somehow leads to nationalist flamewar, I fail to see how that is my fault. I pay plenty of US taxes, I buy my medicines elsewhere.
  - dang 3y ago
    It's not puzzling if you look at it just from the most superficial level, which is how internet dynamics work. Any comment of the form "$country is so $bad. Elsewhere, like $other-country, $good" is going to evoke angry replies in the general case. Edit: while I have you, can you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and adhere to the guidelines more closely? You broke them in other places recently as well (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38696491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38696491) On the plus side, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38664857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38664857 was great and I am going to send you a repost invite for it!

paulcole 3y ago

> Everyone knows phenylephrine is useless. Easy to say now once it’s proved.

CamperBob2 3y ago
If it took that long for regulators and the drug industry to figure out that phenylephrine is worthless, I certainly don't hold out much hope for more advanced cures. The same is true if corruption rather than incompetence is the explanation.
jtbayly 3y ago
Except anyone could have known it did nothing for them. My sister and I confirmed this many years ago.
DHPersonal 3y ago
I recall it being the year it came out when I heard it was useless.
technothrasher 3y ago
It's been pretty common knowledge for years that it doesn't work. That doesn't mean that common knowledge was right, but it certainly isn't a case of everybody only now claiming they knew it.
Runways 3y ago
Actually, it's funny. My parents aren't Libertarian, but they kinda lean that way in terms of not trusting the government - etc. When they restricted pseudoephedrine, they immediately were suspicious about phenylephrine and eventually came to the conclusion that it doesn't do anything. They'd demand pseudoephedrine and claim that phenylephrine was just a way to restrict pseudoephedrine while allowing pharma to rip us off, yada yada. That's where my strong disdain for phenylephrine came from. Once I was in college buying my own medicine, I came to the same conclusion that one worked and one didn't. Pseudoephedrine was just a miracle drug to me, I remember stopping taking it too early and feeling blegh within hours.
maccard 3y ago
We've known for ages - https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2015/10/26/the-popular-over-the-counter-cold-medicine-that-science-says-doesnt-work/?sh=417922b84753 https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2015/10/26/the-pop...
HumblyTossed 3y ago
Everyone who is easily congested already knew it.
stephen_g 3y ago
Nope, I remember the first time I tried to use a phenylephrine based cold tablet it after the big uproar about putting pseudoephedrine behind the counter - this is more than a decade ago. I’ve always had relief from pseudoephedrine but I felt absolutely no effect from the phenylephrine tablets (apart from the paracetamol they also contain, but zero decongestant effect). I looked it up and other people were reporting the same, I was so annoyed I never bought it again and from then always ask for the real thing. Weird thing was the pharmacists always want to know why you’re asking (even beyond doing the drivers license check) and I had to say every time that the off the shelf tablets do literally do nothing for me.
michaelcampbell 3y ago
It never worked for me, but I thought that was a "because me" thing. It makes me both exhausted and unable to sleep, and although I'm not very good at very many things, I'm generally an exceptional sleeper so this was something I wasn't willing to experiment on dosage experiments to make it work.
karaterobot 3y ago
Ha. I think everyone who tried it said this. I think every conversation I've had with a sick person has included the phrase "this over the counter stuff doesn't do anything". The most cursory search of the internet finds an article from 2006 with the literal phrase "There's just one problem. Phenylephrine doesn't work, and most in the pharmaceutical industry know it." https://reason.com/2006/12/21/step-away-from-the-cold-medici/ https://reason.com/2006/12/21/step-away-from-the-cold-medici... And 2005 is the year Phenylephrine replaced Pseudoephedrine, so it's not like it took anyone any time at all to figure this out.

mdorazio 3y ago

In case you're not aware, it's because pseudoephedrine is used to make meth. As for why it's restricted in the US and not Canada, the DOJ believes that meth production in Canada is relatively low compared to the US [1]. [1] https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs13/13853/product.htm https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs13/13853/product.ht...

singleshot_ 3y ago
I think the implication is that the rest of the world isn’t overrun by tweakers?
SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
As a pedantic correction was used to make meth. Once the supply ran out it became just one more step to make whatever it needed other ways. Practically speaking, lots of things are used to make meth. I had to give ID last time I bought acetone. Which is crazy for all sorts of big brother reasons. I’m not a chemist, but as I understand it, meth isn’t too often made with PE anymore, yet, it sits behind the counter forever now.
- saghm 3y ago
  Obviously this isn't reflective of any actual history, but in the first season of Breaking Bad, one of the early innovations that the main characters made to how they produced meth was coming up with a method that avoided needing PE. If I remember correctly, they instead used methylamine, which is an amusingly smart choice by the writers because it literally starts with the word "meth" but has absolutely no utility when making meth, so they didn't have to worry about people getting any ideas from the show.
  - jaggederest 3y ago
    It's used in the P2P method and is a DEA List 1 chemical. It's definitely real chemistry, not fake chemistry. Much of the chemistry on the show was close enough while being vague enough not to actually help anyone who couldn't read the voluminous research papers on the matter.

soylentcola 3y ago

But not in (at least much of) the UK apparently. I was on vacation in England and Scotland a year ago and many in our group came down with an annoying cold. Every chemist had piles of phenylephrine tablets but no pseudoephedrine (or even phenylephrine nasal spray, which works quite well). I did not have a fun time explaining to my sniffly girlfriend why these were all trash and there was no point in buying them - she just wanted some relief and couldn't understand how I would somehow know better than all the different drugs on the shelves. It made me feel like some nutty conspiracy theorist, insisting that the medicine was all phony. Thankfully it didn't derail the trip, and in the end I found some other nasal spray that sort-of worked.

maccard 3y ago
Pharmacies in the UK absolutely do stock pseudoephedrine. It's usually behind the counter and you have to ask for it. "Sinutab, or own brand, without pain relief" is what you're looking for, for anyone reading.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
stephen_g 3y ago
I’ve bought pseudoephedrine tablets at Boots on a trip but I think I did have to ask at the counter.
jcadam 3y ago
I've found plain 'ol saline nasal spray works well enough... and, a hot toddy helps clear the sinuses.
- spookie 3y ago
  Mint tea too! Or some Fisherman's Friends

pajko 3y ago

That's strange and I was surprised reading in the article that phenylephrine is ineffective. Basically this is the only combo that works for me all the time: https://www.drugs.com/mtm/pheniramine-and-phenylephrine.html https://www.drugs.com/mtm/pheniramine-and-phenylephrine.html It's available as Neo Citran in the EU. Tried a couple of other meds, neither worked, nor the parts of the combo separately (combined with other stuff). Only side effect is that it knocks me out a bit, making me feel tired. At least falling asleep is easier. It's the side effect of pheniramine.

542458 3y ago

> Everyone knows phenylephrine is useless. It’s pretty easy to find phenylephrine on the shelves in Canada (I’d say about half the drugs use it vs pseudoephrine) so obviously somebody is buying it. Anecdotally, I always tell people to read the labels and only buy pseudoephrine based medication, and it’s consistently a surprise to people - I don’t think the difference was anywhere near universally known.

dreamcompiler 3y ago
People buy homeopathic remedies by the truckload too. They are even less effective than phenylephrine. The average person has no clue how to evaluate medicines. Stupid laws should not impede those of us who do have said clue.

dang 3y ago

Please keep nationalistic flamebait out of your comments here. It leads to nationalistic flamewar (in the general case—not in this thread, but that was by luck). https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

xyzzy_plugh 3y ago
I'm puzzled by this comment. The first thing that sprung to mind when reading the article was how terrible it was to be treated like a drug abusing criminal whenever we tried to purchase anything containing pseudoephedrine in the United States. Pharmacist can't figure out how to scan an out of country license, makes you get your passport. Can't figure out how to scan your passport, makes you get additional ID. Can't figure out what to do with additional ID, shrugs and says sorry you can't have this medicine. I'm sorry, what??? Is this a joke? I was turned away at the pharmacy buying cold medication? Don't even get me started about prescriptions that family members literally depend on for their livelihoods and the continuous monthly battle to keep those prescriptions filled. And I'm not just referring to stimulants. Insofar as I can tell the prevalence of phenylephrine is due solely to this dumb policy under the umbrella of The dumb War on Drugs. If this is somehow nationalistic flamebait, or somehow leads to nationalist flamewar, I fail to see how that is my fault. I pay plenty of US taxes, I buy my medicines elsewhere.
- dang 3y ago
  It's not puzzling if you look at it just from the most superficial level, which is how internet dynamics work. Any comment of the form "$country is so $bad. Elsewhere, like $other-country, $good" is going to evoke angry replies in the general case. Edit: while I have you, can you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and adhere to the guidelines more closely? You broke them in other places recently as well (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38696491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38696491) On the plus side, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38664857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38664857 was great and I am going to send you a repost invite for it!