5 ms·

TL;DR: Apps can access the nearby Wi-Fi hotspot SSID and MAC addresses through an API that is intended to help with connecting to hotspots. Then they can use th

by mrtksn 3y ago

TL;DR: Apps can access the nearby Wi-Fi hotspot SSID and MAC addresses through an API that is intended to help with connecting to hotspots. Then they can use this info to look-up in databases that collect SSIDs based on their locations. Seems like a valid concern, though the author's writing style can be off putting since has a tone with an agenda. However, AFAIK apps need to declare the use of this API and have a good reason for it(you fill up a form explaining why you need it and Apple has to agree to grant you the privilege). So, most likely your flashlight app is not tracking you. I'm sorry you don't like it but that's the truth, the author left out crucial details to make it juicier.

INGSOCIALITE 3y ago
i wouldn't be worried about my flashlight app tracking me, i'd be worried about the large players who probably GET the use of this API, google facebook etc etc.
- secondcoming 3y ago
  If that app has ads then your info is being sent to advertisers. Why would a flashlight app even need your location?
- mrtksn 3y ago
  As I said, it's a valid concern. However the author forget the mention that you need to apply and get approved to use this API. I find it dishonest and alarmist. Here's the request form that you fill up for it: https://developer.apple.com/contact/request/hotspot-helper/ https://developer.apple.com/contact/request/hotspot-helper/
  - wwtrv 3y ago
    > However the author forget the mention that you need to apply and get approved to use this API. And? How is this any better? e.g. if I'm a dissident/etc. in China I would be much concerned about government affiliated large corporations being able to track my location than some random private developer (not that this specific API really matters that much if you're using those apps anyway). > I find it dishonest and alarmist. I find it a magnitude or two less dishonest than Apple (a company supposedly focused on user private) not informing their users that this is happening and directly requesting their consent.
    - mrtksn 3y ago
      Your government can track you all the time you have your phone with you, they have authority over the infrastructure. They can also make device manufacturer to track you for them, later you will be a single digit increase in their transparency stats. If you don't want the government track you, you will have to do much better than using mainstream consumer devices. Apple is not your spycraft supplier.
      - redwall_hp 3y ago
        You would also have to not use a phone in general, since your carrier always knows where you are, by the nature of how cellular networks work. Your phone has a unique hardware identifier that is linked to your identity, and every tower knows which phones pinged it recently. Two towers are two points in a triangle, and you're the third. Carriers constantly perform triangulation and keep records of phones' coordinates, which of course can be subpoenaed, and may be available more freely to government agencies, depending on how much abusive surveillance your local government does. Carriers have also sold this information to data brokers in the past.
- dylan604 3y ago
  I would absolutely be concerned about a flashlight app doing all the nefarious things. A flashlight app? Today? Still? Really? It's one of those apps that's absolutely useless since the OS provides this feature natively now. It is absolutely the type of app I would assume has no reason other than harvesting data.
  - stavros 3y ago
    You're conflating "utility to user" with "utility to developer". A flashlight app has no utility to the user, it doesn't really matter to me that it's useful to its developer (for collecting my personal data).
    - dylan604 3y ago
      I'm not conflating anything. You didn't comprehend what I wrote.
- datadrivenangel 3y ago
  Except that there are data collection SDK companies where you can get paid as a developer in exchange for installing an SDK that will send customer data to the company. It's one way to monetize an app a little bit more.
froggertoaster 3y ago
> off putting since has a tone with an agenda completely agree, I read 2 sentences and closed it.
yunohn 3y ago
Sure, entitlements need approval from Apple. But clearly, apps are able to get it for undisclosed reasons and use it for tracking. Obviously, this goes against Apple’s guidelines and should be dealt with swiftly, especially now that it is public knowledge.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ghusto 3y ago
> TL:DR; Apps can access the nearby Wi-Fi hotspot SSID and MAC addresses through an API that is intended to help with connecting to hotspots. Then they can use this info to look-up in databases that collect SSIDs based on their locations. This is the whole story. Thank you for writing it, and sorry that you're getting downvoted for it. > I'm sorry you don't like it but that's the truth, the author left out crucial details to make it juicier I wish there was a way to know when people had downvoted with "this is true but I don't like that it's true".
- mrtksn 3y ago
  I wish too. I hate it when I don't know why I'm downvoted.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    That's the only thing about getting downvoted here that irritates me -- I rarely know why people are downvoting. Sometimes I can infer why, but most often it's just a complete mystery. Knowing why the downvotes are happening could be a useful signal to help me improve commenting in the future. Not knowing why just makes the downvotes informationless noise.
    - ghusto 3y ago
      Maybe a choice from a small number of reasons after clicking the downvote could be good? Something like "inaccurate, antagonistic, rule violation".
  - Keejazz 3y ago
    I did not downvote you, but I did react a bit negatively to the comment about the language (we know it is chatgpt, at least in part) of the article. I was curious about the prompting, so I used a regular translator to get a feel of the original article, and I feel the original language seem OK (if my translators are half decent). I also reacted negatively to the last sentence in your comment, because to me, it felt like a truth-declaration based on an assumption (the author deliberately did not include...) - however, after translating the original and not being able to find anything about it there, either, I agree your assumption might very well be the truth, but this would still be intention-guessing, and that put me off a tiny bit. (if you read Chinese, all this would be an unfair assumption from my part, and I apologise :) I would never downwote for such things, personally. I found your TL:DR to be good (including more information as well as replaying the mains of the article is great value, thank you!) to care about small stuff mentioned above. But you seemed to want to understand why some have downvoted, and as I got a bit of negative reaction from the parts mentioned, I thought I could explain my feelings for them, in the hopes this might actually be useful for you.
JohnFen 3y ago
Those crucial details don't really seem to make it much better to me.

by mrtksn 3y ago

INGSOCIALITE 3y ago

i wouldn't be worried about my flashlight app tracking me, i'd be worried about the large players who probably GET the use of this API, google facebook etc etc.

secondcoming 3y ago
If that app has ads then your info is being sent to advertisers. Why would a flashlight app even need your location?
mrtksn 3y ago
As I said, it's a valid concern. However the author forget the mention that you need to apply and get approved to use this API. I find it dishonest and alarmist. Here's the request form that you fill up for it: https://developer.apple.com/contact/request/hotspot-helper/ https://developer.apple.com/contact/request/hotspot-helper/
- wwtrv 3y ago
  > However the author forget the mention that you need to apply and get approved to use this API. And? How is this any better? e.g. if I'm a dissident/etc. in China I would be much concerned about government affiliated large corporations being able to track my location than some random private developer (not that this specific API really matters that much if you're using those apps anyway). > I find it dishonest and alarmist. I find it a magnitude or two less dishonest than Apple (a company supposedly focused on user private) not informing their users that this is happening and directly requesting their consent.
  - mrtksn 3y ago
    Your government can track you all the time you have your phone with you, they have authority over the infrastructure. They can also make device manufacturer to track you for them, later you will be a single digit increase in their transparency stats. If you don't want the government track you, you will have to do much better than using mainstream consumer devices. Apple is not your spycraft supplier.
    - redwall_hp 3y ago
      You would also have to not use a phone in general, since your carrier always knows where you are, by the nature of how cellular networks work. Your phone has a unique hardware identifier that is linked to your identity, and every tower knows which phones pinged it recently. Two towers are two points in a triangle, and you're the third. Carriers constantly perform triangulation and keep records of phones' coordinates, which of course can be subpoenaed, and may be available more freely to government agencies, depending on how much abusive surveillance your local government does. Carriers have also sold this information to data brokers in the past.
dylan604 3y ago
I would absolutely be concerned about a flashlight app doing all the nefarious things. A flashlight app? Today? Still? Really? It's one of those apps that's absolutely useless since the OS provides this feature natively now. It is absolutely the type of app I would assume has no reason other than harvesting data.
- stavros 3y ago
  You're conflating "utility to user" with "utility to developer". A flashlight app has no utility to the user, it doesn't really matter to me that it's useful to its developer (for collecting my personal data).
  - dylan604 3y ago
    I'm not conflating anything. You didn't comprehend what I wrote.
datadrivenangel 3y ago
Except that there are data collection SDK companies where you can get paid as a developer in exchange for installing an SDK that will send customer data to the company. It's one way to monetize an app a little bit more.

froggertoaster 3y ago

> off putting since has a tone with an agenda completely agree, I read 2 sentences and closed it.

yunohn 3y ago

Sure, entitlements need approval from Apple. But clearly, apps are able to get it for undisclosed reasons and use it for tracking. Obviously, this goes against Apple’s guidelines and should be dealt with swiftly, especially now that it is public knowledge.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ghusto 3y ago

> TL:DR; Apps can access the nearby Wi-Fi hotspot SSID and MAC addresses through an API that is intended to help with connecting to hotspots. Then they can use this info to look-up in databases that collect SSIDs based on their locations. This is the whole story. Thank you for writing it, and sorry that you're getting downvoted for it. > I'm sorry you don't like it but that's the truth, the author left out crucial details to make it juicier I wish there was a way to know when people had downvoted with "this is true but I don't like that it's true".

mrtksn 3y ago
I wish too. I hate it when I don't know why I'm downvoted.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  That's the only thing about getting downvoted here that irritates me -- I rarely know why people are downvoting. Sometimes I can infer why, but most often it's just a complete mystery. Knowing why the downvotes are happening could be a useful signal to help me improve commenting in the future. Not knowing why just makes the downvotes informationless noise.
  - ghusto 3y ago
    Maybe a choice from a small number of reasons after clicking the downvote could be good? Something like "inaccurate, antagonistic, rule violation".
- Keejazz 3y ago
  I did not downvote you, but I did react a bit negatively to the comment about the language (we know it is chatgpt, at least in part) of the article. I was curious about the prompting, so I used a regular translator to get a feel of the original article, and I feel the original language seem OK (if my translators are half decent). I also reacted negatively to the last sentence in your comment, because to me, it felt like a truth-declaration based on an assumption (the author deliberately did not include...) - however, after translating the original and not being able to find anything about it there, either, I agree your assumption might very well be the truth, but this would still be intention-guessing, and that put me off a tiny bit. (if you read Chinese, all this would be an unfair assumption from my part, and I apologise :) I would never downwote for such things, personally. I found your TL:DR to be good (including more information as well as replaying the mains of the article is great value, thank you!) to care about small stuff mentioned above. But you seemed to want to understand why some have downvoted, and as I got a bit of negative reaction from the parts mentioned, I thought I could explain my feelings for them, in the hopes this might actually be useful for you.

JohnFen 3y ago

Those crucial details don't really seem to make it much better to me.