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The difference between us is that I don’t think Israel is trying to "repay blood", but is protecting its citizens and is attempting to rescue hostages and to de

The difference between us is that I don’t think Israel is trying to "repay blood", but is protecting its citizens and is attempting to rescue hostages and to destroy a militant terrorist organisation that uses civilian infrastructure for its attacks. "even" the BBC that refuses to call Hamas terrorists? I will listen to other countries talking when they are faced with rocket fire from civilan objects, while their citizens are held hostage. I’d listen to what Ukraine has to say, for example. Using language such as "IDF murdered Israeli hostages" is plain antisemitic, like so many similar small things. For what is the definition of "murder" – it’s "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another." So you are saying that in the heat of the battle, while Hamas operatives are constantly using speakers with calls for help in Hebrew recorded (https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rj0qiptia https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rj0qiptia) and are attacking without wearing uniform (breaking the law of war with just that already), the soliders "murdered" Israeli hostages. That is the perfect example of the antisemitic approach to discussing this conflict.

matthews2 3y ago
> "even" the BBC that refuses to call Hamas terrorists? This isn't specific to Israel/Hamas, the BBC avoid a lot of emotive and loaded language. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432
qwertthrowway 3y ago
[flagged]
- gryzzly 3y ago
  and you blame Israel and not hamas? why?
  - qwertthrowway 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - gryzzly 3y ago
      Yes, Hamas is doing that! They keep the hostages, and hide in tunnels not letting the civilian population to shelter from bombs in there. They prevent movement of civilian population out of the danger area, they use humanitarian areas for launching rockets, they are using hospitals as their command centers and for keeping hostages in them. Yes, they are the ones "flattening cityscapes". And they, again, refused a ceasefire offer yesterday.
  - mablopoule 3y ago
    You can blame both, it's not either/or. Hamas is a terrorist group that makes everything it can do to threaten Israel, and has no regard to Palestinian lives. In the same time, it's getting harder and harder to turn a blind eye to the blatant disregard of Palestinian lives and casualty from Israel. There is a notion of proportionality in war [1], and Israel's willingness to kill civilians is simply inexcusable at this point. Sure you can say that Hamas use civilians as a shield, and you'll be right, that doesn't give the other side a free pass to bomb an incredibly dense zone of already-displaced people. Even Rony Brauman, the ex-director of Doctors Without Borders said in an interview recently that it's one of the first times they seen intense bombing on a population who couldn't even flee the zone, and at this point Gaza was a mass grave of kids [2]. Israel absolutely does have a right to defend itself, but that doesn't give them a free pass for everything, and right now they are actively undermining their claim on being a democracy with respect on humans right. [1] https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/assessing-israel-s-approach-to-proportionality-in-the-conduct-of-hostilities-in-gaza https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/assessing-israel-s-appr... [2] (french) https://pca.st/episode/acfb00a6-2392-454c-a1e0-710ae4df6552 https://pca.st/episode/acfb00a6-2392-454c-a1e0-710ae4df6552
    - gryzzly 3y ago
      This is the criticism I will accept, and want to see and hear. I want Netanyahu in jail, Smotrich and Ben-Gvir in jail, I want the settlers who destroy the lives of West Bank farmers to be in the same jail where hamas fighters are. I want the world to demand the rules of war to be kept, I want the world to ask Israel to provide evidence, I want the army to do better on preventing civilian deaths, but to say that Israel’s "end game is to kill palestinians" is not an acceptable form of discussion.

matthews2 3y ago

> "even" the BBC that refuses to call Hamas terrorists? This isn't specific to Israel/Hamas, the BBC avoid a lot of emotive and loaded language. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432

qwertthrowway 3y ago

[flagged]

gryzzly 3y ago
and you blame Israel and not hamas? why?
- qwertthrowway 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - gryzzly 3y ago
    Yes, Hamas is doing that! They keep the hostages, and hide in tunnels not letting the civilian population to shelter from bombs in there. They prevent movement of civilian population out of the danger area, they use humanitarian areas for launching rockets, they are using hospitals as their command centers and for keeping hostages in them. Yes, they are the ones "flattening cityscapes". And they, again, refused a ceasefire offer yesterday.
- mablopoule 3y ago
  You can blame both, it's not either/or. Hamas is a terrorist group that makes everything it can do to threaten Israel, and has no regard to Palestinian lives. In the same time, it's getting harder and harder to turn a blind eye to the blatant disregard of Palestinian lives and casualty from Israel. There is a notion of proportionality in war [1], and Israel's willingness to kill civilians is simply inexcusable at this point. Sure you can say that Hamas use civilians as a shield, and you'll be right, that doesn't give the other side a free pass to bomb an incredibly dense zone of already-displaced people. Even Rony Brauman, the ex-director of Doctors Without Borders said in an interview recently that it's one of the first times they seen intense bombing on a population who couldn't even flee the zone, and at this point Gaza was a mass grave of kids [2]. Israel absolutely does have a right to defend itself, but that doesn't give them a free pass for everything, and right now they are actively undermining their claim on being a democracy with respect on humans right. [1] https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/assessing-israel-s-approach-to-proportionality-in-the-conduct-of-hostilities-in-gaza https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/assessing-israel-s-appr... [2] (french) https://pca.st/episode/acfb00a6-2392-454c-a1e0-710ae4df6552 https://pca.st/episode/acfb00a6-2392-454c-a1e0-710ae4df6552
  - gryzzly 3y ago
    This is the criticism I will accept, and want to see and hear. I want Netanyahu in jail, Smotrich and Ben-Gvir in jail, I want the settlers who destroy the lives of West Bank farmers to be in the same jail where hamas fighters are. I want the world to demand the rules of war to be kept, I want the world to ask Israel to provide evidence, I want the army to do better on preventing civilian deaths, but to say that Israel’s "end game is to kill palestinians" is not an acceptable form of discussion.