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A super cheap wholesale price on a windy day like this. Past year average: £97.90/MWh Right now: £5.99/MWh. Better transmission and storage tech or better way
by Arbortheus 3y ago
A super cheap wholesale price on a windy day like this.
Past year average: £97.90/MWh
Right now: £5.99/MWh.
Better transmission and storage tech or better ways to scale demand at different times will be a game changer here.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoIt was once said that nuclear fission would be too cheap to meter. Turns out, that promise will be met with fusion at a distance. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37502924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37502924 (citations) (edit @ oezi: wind power is solar power)
- oezi 3y agoSolar alone won't cut it in the winter. We need wind as well.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ben_w 3y agoWhile I prefer a mix of sources to avoid correlated black swan failures, technically you could power the world just fine with distributed PV and a sufficiently fat[0] wire connecting everything. [0] 1m^2 cross section if it's aluminium
- throwup238 3y agoHopefully they'll use plasma conduits instead and all the years of binge watching Star Trek and Stargate will pay off.
- pfdietz 3y agoOr with hydrogen storage.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoAmmonia.
- pfdietz 3y agoYou can store hydrogen underground. I don't think that would work as well with ammonia.
- toomuchtodo 3y agohttps://patents.google.com/patent/US2901403A/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US2901403A/en https://www.oxfordenergy.org/wpcms/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Ammonia-as-a-storage-solution-for-future-decarbonized-systems-EL-42.pdf https://www.oxfordenergy.org/wpcms/wp-content/uploads/2020/1... https://www.nj.gov/dep/njgs/enviroed/infocirc/StorCavsIC.pdf https://www.nj.gov/dep/njgs/enviroed/infocirc/StorCavsIC.pdf (Control-F "Repauno Works") TLDR It is a superior long duration liquid energy storage system vs hydrogen.
- pfdietz 3y agoConceded! Except for round trip efficiency.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoNo worries, we are all learning together. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acssuschemeng.7b02219 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acssuschemeng.7b02219
- Night_Thastus 3y agoWhy hydrogen? Aren't fuel-cells are notoriously low density storage medium for power?
- throwaway2990 3y agoWind and solar are terrible solutions. Another 10-20 years and people will be complaining about cost of power as all the wind and solar need to be replaced and repaired. And the discussions on irreversible damage it’s done.
- throwbadubadu 3y agoLucky us we are past that already with nuclear, those plants never need replacement, neither heavy subsidies upfront, or also afterwards to dismantle and clean up.. why humans so stupid? Did I forgot that they also never need maintenance, as all the other tech? Except gas and coal plants, which are also maintenance free, and we can even make profit on the resources they consume!
- amanaplanacanal 3y agoNot sure how this is possible, when it’s already cheaper in many places to build new wind and solar than to burn coal in existing plants. What kind of “irreversible damage” do you have in mind?
- throwaway2990 3y agoCheaper to build yet the cost of power has gone up significantly.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoCitations: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38762113 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38762113 https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2023/12/electricity-thats-too-cheap-to-meter/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2023/12/electricity-thats-too-cheap... https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1613/ML16131A120.pdf https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1613/ML16131A120.pdf https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/students/history-101/too-cheap-to-meter.html https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/students/history-10...
- jermaustin1 3y agoI got it! A huge fan that blows a lot of wind when demand peaks!
- function_seven 3y agoLiterally importing the wind from one place to another. What a time to be alive!
- Gibbon1 3y agoAt that price resistive heating would be cheaper than nat gas.
- creer 3y agoAnd the appliances are inexpensive too.
- Gibbon1 3y agoI was thinking district heating systems are probably a bad fit for heat pumps because they use steam. But if electricity prices have a tendency to go negative retrofitting them with resistive heaters could be a win.
- creer 3y agoAre there a lot of steam district heating systems in the UK? I was thinking low cost retail electricity would be quickly absorbed by anyone not yet on electric (or district) heating buying cheap electric heaters (and they ARE cheap).
- Gibbon1 3y agoI think in Nordic Countries and places like Germany and Russia. My opinion if you get regular periods where electricity prices drop to zero or negative someones going to move to take advantage of that.