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How does recycling reduce plastic pollution? It's degrading and destroying the same plastic over and over. You're taking the high-quality plastic that would hav

How does recycling reduce plastic pollution? It's degrading and destroying the same plastic over and over. You're taking the high-quality plastic that would have sat in a landfill, making it into a lower-quality plastic and then sending it back out in the world. And then eventually... yep, the landfill, in the best-case scenario. Recycling just increases the chance that it's going to end up as low-quality plastic polluting the environment.

tmikaeld 3y ago
Plastic eating bacterium seems to be the only proper way of disposal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideonella_sakaiensis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideonella_sakaiensis
aarond0623 3y ago
If you reuse the same plastic multiple times, doesn't that reduce the total amount of plastic needed to produce the same number of goods, thus reducing plastic pollution?
- tmikaeld 3y ago
  Recycling is complicated, because only certain polymers can be recycled, then it has to be separated from contaminants, transported, sorted and re-shipped to re-use facilities (often in China). A lot of improvements are needed for this to be both lucrative and effective [0]. Then there's the microplastics that still spread across the globe. [0] https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2022/gc/d2gc02162e https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2022/gc/d2gc0...
mrweasel 3y ago
> How does recycling reduce plastic pollution? So the solution is to make more plastic? If we're not reducing the amount of plastic we're using, we can at least make less, by reusing the plastic we've already created. Take plastic conduits, they are mostly made from recycled windows, but still last a heck of a long time, that is going to be the better option than making all new plastic for them. We also reuse plastic bottles all the time, 87% of soft drink bottles are reused and made into new bottles (in Denmark), so we'd need to create a lot more plastic overall to compensate if they where not reused. On a lower level, having to recycle your plastic at home makes you painfully aware how much plastic you drag into your home. Ideally that would mean that you "buy" more, but mostly you don't have any control over that. Everything is packaged in way more layers than strictly needed. The amount of plastic we have to sort on a daily basis is insane. It has made me look for products that are packaged in less plastic, but it's an uphill battle.
NewsyHacker 3y ago
"Recycling" is often a shorthand for any rubbish separation. In various countries now, plastic is separated at the municipality’s order so that it can then be burned utterly in an incinerator (plastic and metal waste are frequently separated together, so the metal can be recovered after burning). Burning prevents even microplastics. Also, recycling can involve wholly reusing plastic containers several times, not breaking the plastic down to make new stuff. This has been done in e.g. the Nordic countries for decades now: soft-drink bottles are returned to the supermarket at a special machine (so you get a deposit back), then they are washed and refilled by the bottler.
- gruez 3y ago
  > then they are washed and refilled by the bottler. Source? I highly doubt they're washing and reusing plastic bottles.
  - NewsyHacker 3y ago
    My experience is a few years old and apparently this system has changed, see this Reddit discussion[0]. But 0.5L and 1.5L bottles in Finland used to be made from much thicker and more durable plastic than in most other EU countries so they could be washed. They were then stamped, and once a certain number of uses was reached, they were finally disposed of. [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/Finland/comments/w703w4/plastic_and_recycling/ihjudpf/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Finland/comments/w703w4/plastic_and...
    - jkestner 3y ago
      A good point. Where’s the cost-benefit to use _more_ plastic to create more durable products, even at the cost of recyclability? Right now I’m making a product that should last 10 years outdoors. I wanted to pick PET or HDPE for their high recyclability, but if it leads to a shorter product lifespan (and all the opportunities to drop out of the recycling stream), what’s the point? Our plan is use a more rugged plastic and take back old product ourselves to recycle, only because we have a willing injection molder. ABS is one of the most commonly used plastics and very unrecyclable, but it might be more acceptable if the electronics in it were supported for more than 3 years.
imjonse 3y ago
The idea that recycling exists allows guilt-free production and consumption of more plastics even if those are not actually ever recycled.
guiambros 3y ago
> Recycling just increases the chance that it's going to end up as low-quality plastic polluting the environment. I don't follow your logic. Say you consume 10 units of plastic per year; if 5 of them are still good to be recycled, and 5 end up in the landfill as degraded "low-quality plastic" (whatever that means), you net landfill contribution is 5/yr. Why would be sending 10 units/yr of "high-quality plastic" be any better? In practice, the issue is economic; it's cheaper to produce new plastic than to fix the entire recycling supply-chain. Until we have a carbon tax over plastic manufacturers that equalizes the recycling costs, it'll be hard to create systemic change just based on consumers' consciousness.
- kyleyeats 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - hatsix 3y ago
    If you're not familiar with different types of social etiquette, then you simply don't know enough to participate in discussions. In this case, educate. Let's assume that you're correct... you have specific knowledge that could change the way the OP thinks about plastic. What exactly is your goal of participating in this conversation if it isn't to have a back and forth and learn from each other? Maybe, by actually having a conversation with this person, you could better understand what misconceptions exist and how to combat them?
    - kyleyeats 3y ago
      I'd rather just dismiss him as a knob.
      - kridsdale1 3y ago
        We don’t do that here.
GuB-42 3y ago
In practice, plastic recycling can be worse than other solutions, like incineration and well managed landfills. That's when plastic is sent to "recycling" centers overseas, which not only burns fossil fuel getting it there, but may end up in nature instead of being recycled when no one is looking. And by overseas, I mean countries like Indonesia, China used to be one of them but they are now taking the environment a bit more seriously and are starting to refuse to greenwash western trash. Plastic recycling can make sense in a limited way, but it shouldn't hamper other efforts. The most important being avoiding dumping in in nature. And remember that plastic is carbon. Burying it where it doesn't degrade is carbon neutral (for oil based plastics) or carbon negative (for bioplastics).
sobkas 3y ago
> How does recycling reduce plastic pollution? It's degrading and destroying the same plastic over and over. You're taking the high-quality plastic that would have sat in a landfill, making it into a lower-quality plastic and then sending it back out in the world. And then eventually... yep, the landfill, in the best-case scenario. > Recycling just increases the chance that it's going to end up as low-quality plastic polluting the environment. Recycling was/is a scam https://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/the-passionate-eye/recycling-was-a-lie-a-big-lie-to-sell-more-plastic-industry-experts-say-1.5735618 https://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/the-passionate-eye/recyclin...
konschubert 3y ago
Just burn it.

tmikaeld 3y ago

Plastic eating bacterium seems to be the only proper way of disposal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideonella_sakaiensis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideonella_sakaiensis

aarond0623 3y ago

If you reuse the same plastic multiple times, doesn't that reduce the total amount of plastic needed to produce the same number of goods, thus reducing plastic pollution?

tmikaeld 3y ago
Recycling is complicated, because only certain polymers can be recycled, then it has to be separated from contaminants, transported, sorted and re-shipped to re-use facilities (often in China). A lot of improvements are needed for this to be both lucrative and effective [0]. Then there's the microplastics that still spread across the globe. [0] https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2022/gc/d2gc02162e https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2022/gc/d2gc0...

mrweasel 3y ago

> How does recycling reduce plastic pollution? So the solution is to make more plastic? If we're not reducing the amount of plastic we're using, we can at least make less, by reusing the plastic we've already created. Take plastic conduits, they are mostly made from recycled windows, but still last a heck of a long time, that is going to be the better option than making all new plastic for them. We also reuse plastic bottles all the time, 87% of soft drink bottles are reused and made into new bottles (in Denmark), so we'd need to create a lot more plastic overall to compensate if they where not reused. On a lower level, having to recycle your plastic at home makes you painfully aware how much plastic you drag into your home. Ideally that would mean that you "buy" more, but mostly you don't have any control over that. Everything is packaged in way more layers than strictly needed. The amount of plastic we have to sort on a daily basis is insane. It has made me look for products that are packaged in less plastic, but it's an uphill battle.

NewsyHacker 3y ago

"Recycling" is often a shorthand for any rubbish separation. In various countries now, plastic is separated at the municipality’s order so that it can then be burned utterly in an incinerator (plastic and metal waste are frequently separated together, so the metal can be recovered after burning). Burning prevents even microplastics. Also, recycling can involve wholly reusing plastic containers several times, not breaking the plastic down to make new stuff. This has been done in e.g. the Nordic countries for decades now: soft-drink bottles are returned to the supermarket at a special machine (so you get a deposit back), then they are washed and refilled by the bottler.

gruez 3y ago
> then they are washed and refilled by the bottler. Source? I highly doubt they're washing and reusing plastic bottles.
- NewsyHacker 3y ago
  My experience is a few years old and apparently this system has changed, see this Reddit discussion[0]. But 0.5L and 1.5L bottles in Finland used to be made from much thicker and more durable plastic than in most other EU countries so they could be washed. They were then stamped, and once a certain number of uses was reached, they were finally disposed of. [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/Finland/comments/w703w4/plastic_and_recycling/ihjudpf/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Finland/comments/w703w4/plastic_and...
  - jkestner 3y ago
    A good point. Where’s the cost-benefit to use _more_ plastic to create more durable products, even at the cost of recyclability? Right now I’m making a product that should last 10 years outdoors. I wanted to pick PET or HDPE for their high recyclability, but if it leads to a shorter product lifespan (and all the opportunities to drop out of the recycling stream), what’s the point? Our plan is use a more rugged plastic and take back old product ourselves to recycle, only because we have a willing injection molder. ABS is one of the most commonly used plastics and very unrecyclable, but it might be more acceptable if the electronics in it were supported for more than 3 years.

imjonse 3y ago

The idea that recycling exists allows guilt-free production and consumption of more plastics even if those are not actually ever recycled.

guiambros 3y ago

> Recycling just increases the chance that it's going to end up as low-quality plastic polluting the environment. I don't follow your logic. Say you consume 10 units of plastic per year; if 5 of them are still good to be recycled, and 5 end up in the landfill as degraded "low-quality plastic" (whatever that means), you net landfill contribution is 5/yr. Why would be sending 10 units/yr of "high-quality plastic" be any better? In practice, the issue is economic; it's cheaper to produce new plastic than to fix the entire recycling supply-chain. Until we have a carbon tax over plastic manufacturers that equalizes the recycling costs, it'll be hard to create systemic change just based on consumers' consciousness.

kyleyeats 3y ago
[flagged]
- hatsix 3y ago
  If you're not familiar with different types of social etiquette, then you simply don't know enough to participate in discussions. In this case, educate. Let's assume that you're correct... you have specific knowledge that could change the way the OP thinks about plastic. What exactly is your goal of participating in this conversation if it isn't to have a back and forth and learn from each other? Maybe, by actually having a conversation with this person, you could better understand what misconceptions exist and how to combat them?
  - kyleyeats 3y ago
    I'd rather just dismiss him as a knob.
    - kridsdale1 3y ago
      We don’t do that here.

GuB-42 3y ago

In practice, plastic recycling can be worse than other solutions, like incineration and well managed landfills. That's when plastic is sent to "recycling" centers overseas, which not only burns fossil fuel getting it there, but may end up in nature instead of being recycled when no one is looking. And by overseas, I mean countries like Indonesia, China used to be one of them but they are now taking the environment a bit more seriously and are starting to refuse to greenwash western trash. Plastic recycling can make sense in a limited way, but it shouldn't hamper other efforts. The most important being avoiding dumping in in nature. And remember that plastic is carbon. Burying it where it doesn't degrade is carbon neutral (for oil based plastics) or carbon negative (for bioplastics).

sobkas 3y ago

> How does recycling reduce plastic pollution? It's degrading and destroying the same plastic over and over. You're taking the high-quality plastic that would have sat in a landfill, making it into a lower-quality plastic and then sending it back out in the world. And then eventually... yep, the landfill, in the best-case scenario. > Recycling just increases the chance that it's going to end up as low-quality plastic polluting the environment. Recycling was/is a scam https://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/the-passionate-eye/recycling-was-a-lie-a-big-lie-to-sell-more-plastic-industry-experts-say-1.5735618 https://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/the-passionate-eye/recyclin...

konschubert 3y ago

Just burn it.