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All three biggest German news sites have Israel/Gaza on their index pages right now. The fact that you antisemitism is punished doesn’t mean that there is no re

All three biggest German news sites have Israel/Gaza on their index pages right now. The fact that you antisemitism is punished doesn’t mean that there is no reporting. "Attacks on intellectuals" is I guess giving them prizes, while they can do comparisons between a military exterminating a terrorist organisation that uses civilian infrastructure to attack Israel and its military and systematic murder of millions. As a Jewish person I’m very happy there is at least an attempt to protect me from hate in this country.

gryzzly 3y ago
correction "The fact that you antisemitism is punished" should be "The fact that antisemitism is punished", `you` is a leftover typo.
- submeta 3y ago
  Well, if you follow ther IHRA's definition of antisemitism that says "criticism of the state of Israel is considered antisemtic". Germany adopted that. But there are other definitions of antisemtism. The jerusalem declaration of antisemtism for instance. Btw: Israel is currently governed by an ultra-right fascist government with members like Ben Gvir (convicted terrorist), Smotrich, and the likes. They have incited pogroms (says the IDF) or have openly called for annexing all of West Bank. So criticism of this government is--according to IHRA--antisemtic.
  - gryzzly 3y ago
    https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definitions-charters/working-definition-antisemitism https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-defin... What is antisemitic: "Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust." "Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor." "Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel." What can be used as a guidance: "Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for “why things go wrong.” It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits." Are you reading this differently than I do? This doesn’t anywhere say you can’t criticise Israel. But the point is that no one would criticise another country that protects its people against brutal massacre, hostage capture and constant (over 9000 rockets in the last 2 months) rocket fire saying the military action is "genocide", for example. It is not genocide, and unlike most other countries, I assume (maybe if Finland or New Zealand had to protect themselves I imagine), it provides humanitarian routes and drops leaflets with safety advice, calls civilians etc. and then Hamas uses these humanitarian areas and prevents the people from moving to the safer areas. And demanding "cease fire", calling this genocide, or simply chanting "from the river to the sea" is all 100% antisemitic.
    - frob 3y ago
      > And demanding "cease fire" ... is all 100% antisemitic. Please, I encourage you to take a good long moment to think about what you just wrote. You are effectively saying that it is the Jewish position that Gazans should be killed. 1% of Gazans are already dead. Do you mean to say that Jews who call for a ceasefire, like many I know do, are antisemites?
      - gryzzly 3y ago
        i am not saying what you wrote.
    - wenebego 3y ago
      The Likud party also uses "from the river to the sea" are they 100% antisemitic?
      - gryzzly 3y ago
        can you direct me to a place where anyone is chanting "Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty" if you like to quote Begin? What are you saying? It is pretty clear what I mean no?
        wenebego 3y ago
        Thats not what you said before, so thats not what im saying now. Read the last sentence of the post i replied to if you're confused
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
submeta 3y ago
> you antisemitism is punished What gives you the right to call me antisemite? You don't know anything about me. The intellectuals I have listed are jewish intellectuals (Ilan Pappe, Candice Breitz, Masha Gessen, Deborah Feldman, and many others). They too are antisemites? You are very typical for the discussions going on in Germany. Attack anyone that deviates from the mainstream narrative.
- gryzzly 3y ago
  You are very typical for a twitter reader, I’d say.
hnbad 3y ago
There is no mainstream German news site that criticizes Israel or the IDF. Even the BBC called out IDF lies when they became too implausible. Even the US suggested that maybe Israel should try to not kill so many civilians. Other countries will even point out that maybe it's a bad sign if the only reason we know that the IDF murdered three Israeli hostages that were unarmed, waving a white flag and called for help in Hebrew after two of them were already killed is that they checked on them because one was a redhead and thus didn't look like a Palestinian. But German public broadcasters will just parrot whatever the official Israeli line is - after filtering out any statements that could be perceived as genocidal of course. If you think critizing Israel is critizing you as a Jew, that's a you problem, not a problem of Jewish people. I know plenty of anti-Zionist and Bundist Jews who will happily condemn the continued mass killings of Palestinians. The blood Hamas spilled has been repaid several times over with the blood of Gazan children alone.
- gryzzly 3y ago
  The difference between us is that I don’t think Israel is trying to "repay blood", but is protecting its citizens and is attempting to rescue hostages and to destroy a militant terrorist organisation that uses civilian infrastructure for its attacks. "even" the BBC that refuses to call Hamas terrorists? I will listen to other countries talking when they are faced with rocket fire from civilan objects, while their citizens are held hostage. I’d listen to what Ukraine has to say, for example. Using language such as "IDF murdered Israeli hostages" is plain antisemitic, like so many similar small things. For what is the definition of "murder" – it’s "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another." So you are saying that in the heat of the battle, while Hamas operatives are constantly using speakers with calls for help in Hebrew recorded (https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rj0qiptia https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rj0qiptia) and are attacking without wearing uniform (breaking the law of war with just that already), the soliders "murdered" Israeli hostages. That is the perfect example of the antisemitic approach to discussing this conflict.
  - matthews2 3y ago
    > "even" the BBC that refuses to call Hamas terrorists? This isn't specific to Israel/Hamas, the BBC avoid a lot of emotive and loaded language. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432

gryzzly 3y ago

correction "The fact that you antisemitism is punished" should be "The fact that antisemitism is punished", `you` is a leftover typo.

submeta 3y ago
Well, if you follow ther IHRA's definition of antisemitism that says "criticism of the state of Israel is considered antisemtic". Germany adopted that. But there are other definitions of antisemtism. The jerusalem declaration of antisemtism for instance. Btw: Israel is currently governed by an ultra-right fascist government with members like Ben Gvir (convicted terrorist), Smotrich, and the likes. They have incited pogroms (says the IDF) or have openly called for annexing all of West Bank. So criticism of this government is--according to IHRA--antisemtic.
- gryzzly 3y ago
  https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definitions-charters/working-definition-antisemitism https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-defin... What is antisemitic: "Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust." "Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor." "Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel." What can be used as a guidance: "Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for “why things go wrong.” It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits." Are you reading this differently than I do? This doesn’t anywhere say you can’t criticise Israel. But the point is that no one would criticise another country that protects its people against brutal massacre, hostage capture and constant (over 9000 rockets in the last 2 months) rocket fire saying the military action is "genocide", for example. It is not genocide, and unlike most other countries, I assume (maybe if Finland or New Zealand had to protect themselves I imagine), it provides humanitarian routes and drops leaflets with safety advice, calls civilians etc. and then Hamas uses these humanitarian areas and prevents the people from moving to the safer areas. And demanding "cease fire", calling this genocide, or simply chanting "from the river to the sea" is all 100% antisemitic.
  - frob 3y ago
    > And demanding "cease fire" ... is all 100% antisemitic. Please, I encourage you to take a good long moment to think about what you just wrote. You are effectively saying that it is the Jewish position that Gazans should be killed. 1% of Gazans are already dead. Do you mean to say that Jews who call for a ceasefire, like many I know do, are antisemites?
    - gryzzly 3y ago
      i am not saying what you wrote.
  - wenebego 3y ago
    The Likud party also uses "from the river to the sea" are they 100% antisemitic?
    - gryzzly 3y ago
      can you direct me to a place where anyone is chanting "Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty" if you like to quote Begin? What are you saying? It is pretty clear what I mean no?
      - wenebego 3y ago
        Thats not what you said before, so thats not what im saying now. Read the last sentence of the post i replied to if you're confused
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

submeta 3y ago

> you antisemitism is punished What gives you the right to call me antisemite? You don't know anything about me. The intellectuals I have listed are jewish intellectuals (Ilan Pappe, Candice Breitz, Masha Gessen, Deborah Feldman, and many others). They too are antisemites? You are very typical for the discussions going on in Germany. Attack anyone that deviates from the mainstream narrative.

gryzzly 3y ago
You are very typical for a twitter reader, I’d say.

hnbad 3y ago

There is no mainstream German news site that criticizes Israel or the IDF. Even the BBC called out IDF lies when they became too implausible. Even the US suggested that maybe Israel should try to not kill so many civilians. Other countries will even point out that maybe it's a bad sign if the only reason we know that the IDF murdered three Israeli hostages that were unarmed, waving a white flag and called for help in Hebrew after two of them were already killed is that they checked on them because one was a redhead and thus didn't look like a Palestinian. But German public broadcasters will just parrot whatever the official Israeli line is - after filtering out any statements that could be perceived as genocidal of course. If you think critizing Israel is critizing you as a Jew, that's a you problem, not a problem of Jewish people. I know plenty of anti-Zionist and Bundist Jews who will happily condemn the continued mass killings of Palestinians. The blood Hamas spilled has been repaid several times over with the blood of Gazan children alone.

gryzzly 3y ago
The difference between us is that I don’t think Israel is trying to "repay blood", but is protecting its citizens and is attempting to rescue hostages and to destroy a militant terrorist organisation that uses civilian infrastructure for its attacks. "even" the BBC that refuses to call Hamas terrorists? I will listen to other countries talking when they are faced with rocket fire from civilan objects, while their citizens are held hostage. I’d listen to what Ukraine has to say, for example. Using language such as "IDF murdered Israeli hostages" is plain antisemitic, like so many similar small things. For what is the definition of "murder" – it’s "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another." So you are saying that in the heat of the battle, while Hamas operatives are constantly using speakers with calls for help in Hebrew recorded (https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rj0qiptia https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rj0qiptia) and are attacking without wearing uniform (breaking the law of war with just that already), the soliders "murdered" Israeli hostages. That is the perfect example of the antisemitic approach to discussing this conflict.
- matthews2 3y ago
  > "even" the BBC that refuses to call Hamas terrorists? This isn't specific to Israel/Hamas, the BBC avoid a lot of emotive and loaded language. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432