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please explain why it would? The government essential funds colleges educations (through loan guarantees and grants etc) for tens of millions of students - has

by ejb999 3y ago

please explain why it would? The government essential funds colleges educations (through loan guarantees and grants etc) for tens of millions of students - has that driven down the cost of college? or did it have the opposite affect?

troupo 3y ago
You could look at why this worked in most of Europe.
closewith 3y ago
> please explain why it would? Well, look at all the other countries where universal healthcare has been implemented. > The government essential funds colleges educations (through loan guarantees and grants etc) for tens of millions of students - has that driven down the cost of college? Look at all the countries with free university. Yes, the cost is lower. > or did it have the opposite affect? Fixed fees and a single payer obviously would have that effect, like everywhere else it's been tried.
- thereddaikon 3y ago
  >Well, look at all the other countries where universal healthcare has been implemented. Oversimplification. Most countries that have universal healthcare do many other things in addition that you aren't accounting for. The US healthcare system is not the same as Europe's but its not single payer. >Look at all the countries with free university. Yes, the cost is lower. See the above. >Fixed fees and a single payer obviously would have that effect, like everywhere else it's been tried. So now you're starting to get the idea. It's not just single payer. Never was.
  - closewith 3y ago
    Ah, so your argument is that a purposely sabotaged/neutered form of healthcare (that certainly wouldn't be universal) won't reduced costs. Well, yes, that's what the US has now. Edit: I do love the deliberately obtuse comments from Americans on political topics like education, healthcare, gun control, etc. It's hard to believe intelligent people honest hold these absurd views.
    - thereddaikon 3y ago
      Your argument is in bad faith and you're speaking from smug ignorance. That's not what I said. My point is that the US and European systems have more differences than just who pays the medical bills. And if you just address the payment without any of the multitude of issues in the US system you are doomed to fail. I think it would end up a lot like the college loan system has. Because the ones responsible for the high costs wouldn't have any reason to change what they are doing. For example, many hospitals and clinics in the US have been bought up in the last decade and are now owned by massive health care companies who have outsized power. They are able to eliminate competition not just for patients but also for healthcare workers looking for job opportunities. CHI is one such example. You need to bust them up. Every aspect of the US system will have examples like this. I'm not saying single payer wont work. I'm saying single payer on its own isn't a solution because so much more is broken that isn't broken elsewhere.
TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
Universities are primarily businesses, and loan guarantees are effectively a state subsidy to those businesses. If students were given grants, and universities were given grants, and that was all the money on the table, what pressure would there be to increase the cost of tuition? None - and we know this because the more the system was privatised and deregulated, the more fees started shooting up. Forced debt is slavery. Whether it's medical debt, educational debt, or rentier landlordism, it's the deliberate creation of unnecessary scarcity to reduce the personal agency of most of the population.
richbell 3y ago
There's a compelling argument that this is the result of Reagan cutting funding to colleges, resulting in once-free institutions pivoting to for-profit businesses.

by ejb999 3y ago

troupo 3y ago

You could look at why this worked in most of Europe.

closewith 3y ago

> please explain why it would? Well, look at all the other countries where universal healthcare has been implemented. > The government essential funds colleges educations (through loan guarantees and grants etc) for tens of millions of students - has that driven down the cost of college? Look at all the countries with free university. Yes, the cost is lower. > or did it have the opposite affect? Fixed fees and a single payer obviously would have that effect, like everywhere else it's been tried.

thereddaikon 3y ago
>Well, look at all the other countries where universal healthcare has been implemented. Oversimplification. Most countries that have universal healthcare do many other things in addition that you aren't accounting for. The US healthcare system is not the same as Europe's but its not single payer. >Look at all the countries with free university. Yes, the cost is lower. See the above. >Fixed fees and a single payer obviously would have that effect, like everywhere else it's been tried. So now you're starting to get the idea. It's not just single payer. Never was.
- closewith 3y ago
  Ah, so your argument is that a purposely sabotaged/neutered form of healthcare (that certainly wouldn't be universal) won't reduced costs. Well, yes, that's what the US has now. Edit: I do love the deliberately obtuse comments from Americans on political topics like education, healthcare, gun control, etc. It's hard to believe intelligent people honest hold these absurd views.
  - thereddaikon 3y ago
    Your argument is in bad faith and you're speaking from smug ignorance. That's not what I said. My point is that the US and European systems have more differences than just who pays the medical bills. And if you just address the payment without any of the multitude of issues in the US system you are doomed to fail. I think it would end up a lot like the college loan system has. Because the ones responsible for the high costs wouldn't have any reason to change what they are doing. For example, many hospitals and clinics in the US have been bought up in the last decade and are now owned by massive health care companies who have outsized power. They are able to eliminate competition not just for patients but also for healthcare workers looking for job opportunities. CHI is one such example. You need to bust them up. Every aspect of the US system will have examples like this. I'm not saying single payer wont work. I'm saying single payer on its own isn't a solution because so much more is broken that isn't broken elsewhere.

TheOtherHobbes 3y ago

Universities are primarily businesses, and loan guarantees are effectively a state subsidy to those businesses. If students were given grants, and universities were given grants, and that was all the money on the table, what pressure would there be to increase the cost of tuition? None - and we know this because the more the system was privatised and deregulated, the more fees started shooting up. Forced debt is slavery. Whether it's medical debt, educational debt, or rentier landlordism, it's the deliberate creation of unnecessary scarcity to reduce the personal agency of most of the population.

richbell 3y ago

There's a compelling argument that this is the result of Reagan cutting funding to colleges, resulting in once-free institutions pivoting to for-profit businesses.