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YMMV here. I’m in and from the UK, and have family members who are hospital doctors. The NHS is indeed collapsing, but my understanding is that this is a combi

by gmac 3y ago

YMMV here. I’m in and from the UK, and have family members who are hospital doctors. The NHS is indeed collapsing, but my understanding is that this is a combination of (1) underfunding, (2) Brexit, which caused many healthcare workers from the EU to leave the country, and (3) an incompetent, corrupt, far-right government that hates public services and would like us to move to a monstrously inequitable but profitable US-style system (but know they can’t say that out loud).

_heimdall 3y ago
> (1) underfunding In the context of comparing total government spending, that's a really important caveat. > (3) an incompetent, corrupt, far-right government that hates public services Isn't that a problem with a fully government-run system in general? Preferences and motivations in leadership change over time. If the people are dependent on the government program to function they're also at risk of being helpless if and when the government stops running the program well.
- beej71 3y ago
  > Preferences and motivations in leadership change over time That is a risk. At least in the US you can be certain the consistent goal of the private healthcare system is to part you from your money. :)
  - _heimdall 3y ago
    Honestly its one benefit of a true open market, you know what the motivation is. Whether that's worth all the downsides it can cause, I'll leave that up to the reader to decide...
gumballindie 3y ago
Correct. And as a result of underfunding it's also underskilled. Not that those that have not yet left the system are not capable of performing, but rather those that are new are not the best - who would want to work in a system that underpays and overworks? Literarily all students I know studying medicine wish to stay away from the NHS and work in private health care. When speaking to foreign prospect students in my network I get the impression that studying in the UK is the running joke - both in pay prospects and tuition quality. I really really wish the british public would reflect more on understanding how corruption works, because "government that hates public services and would like us to move to a monstrously inequitable but profitable US-style system" is precisely that. Constantly demanding higher taxes to patch the system is one of the means the public is steered towards wanting it to be privatised, yet many fall for it. > Brexit, which caused many healthcare workers from the EU to leave the country Turns out european workers were not in demand because they were cheap, but because they had critical expertise. Allowing people to come in and work on equal terms and equal pay meant attracting the best and the brightest. Now the system attracts the desperate, willing to work for nothing and providing quality comensurate with pay. And this is reflected in all areas of life in the UK, private or public. The number of times I had to correct my lawier, solicitor, doctor, mechanic, plumber, and electrician, is ridiculous. Take this as a cry for change as I love this country.

by gmac 3y ago

_heimdall 3y ago

> (1) underfunding In the context of comparing total government spending, that's a really important caveat. > (3) an incompetent, corrupt, far-right government that hates public services Isn't that a problem with a fully government-run system in general? Preferences and motivations in leadership change over time. If the people are dependent on the government program to function they're also at risk of being helpless if and when the government stops running the program well.

beej71 3y ago
> Preferences and motivations in leadership change over time That is a risk. At least in the US you can be certain the consistent goal of the private healthcare system is to part you from your money. :)
- _heimdall 3y ago
  Honestly its one benefit of a true open market, you know what the motivation is. Whether that's worth all the downsides it can cause, I'll leave that up to the reader to decide...

gumballindie 3y ago

Correct. And as a result of underfunding it's also underskilled. Not that those that have not yet left the system are not capable of performing, but rather those that are new are not the best - who would want to work in a system that underpays and overworks? Literarily all students I know studying medicine wish to stay away from the NHS and work in private health care. When speaking to foreign prospect students in my network I get the impression that studying in the UK is the running joke - both in pay prospects and tuition quality. I really really wish the british public would reflect more on understanding how corruption works, because "government that hates public services and would like us to move to a monstrously inequitable but profitable US-style system" is precisely that. Constantly demanding higher taxes to patch the system is one of the means the public is steered towards wanting it to be privatised, yet many fall for it. > Brexit, which caused many healthcare workers from the EU to leave the country Turns out european workers were not in demand because they were cheap, but because they had critical expertise. Allowing people to come in and work on equal terms and equal pay meant attracting the best and the brightest. Now the system attracts the desperate, willing to work for nothing and providing quality comensurate with pay. And this is reflected in all areas of life in the UK, private or public. The number of times I had to correct my lawier, solicitor, doctor, mechanic, plumber, and electrician, is ridiculous. Take this as a cry for change as I love this country.