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That is fine, and it’s called risk taking from private capital towards an economy Which funds jobs in each market and drives innovation. It’s called having a

That is fine, and it’s called risk taking from private capital towards an economy Which funds jobs in each market and drives innovation. It’s called having a positive outlook towards an economy, you don’t want that capital to stay in banks owned by top 1% cuz that’s where it’ll stay if you don’t make an environment where they’ll use it to fund more jobs for the masses and gamble it away for a chance at something greater It’s why having deflation or 0 inflation in an economy is bad, because they want people to invest back and take risks in an economy ? So why celebrate a pause, unless you want the country to go down into flames. This isnt money where the government will bailout these VCs, this is them taking risks, creating jobs, spurring innovation, knowing fully well they might lose it all.

kaoD 3y ago
That's a very nice way to put it, but in reality this turned out to be money not spent wisely and instead distorting the market. This often does not lead to innovation, see e.g. the absolutely zero innovation that we got from the cryptocurrency craze. It could even stifle innovation by distorting the market in weird ways, driving away the money from productive (but less speculative) endeavors. > It’s why having deflation or 0 inflation in an economy is bad, because they want people to invest back and take risks in an economy ? You can also tax the shit out of large capital in a non-linear fashion which, unlike inflation, will not hit the small savers. This will still encourage that capital to not stay in banks, while helping small savers to build capital (which is the only way to really drive out the oligopoly) instead of riding the funding wave and hoping for an exit out of a business built on burning money which will only make the corporate conglomerates even bigger when they acquire you (which is your only incentive as a business-owner, to strive for an exit, since otherwise you'll just be hemorrhaging money from your "business"). Note I don't think this is the way to go, I just think the common narrative (which I saw implicitly in your comment, forgive me if I'm wrong) is just a rose-tinted glance at our current situation in post-capitalism.
- teitoklien 3y ago
  You’re right I missed some important stuff, came across this a bit later, a couple of minutes ago: [Destruction of America’s middle class](https://seekingalpha.com/article/4346450-federal-reserve-and-ongoing-destruction-of-bottom-90-percent https://seekingalpha.com/article/4346450-federal-reserve-and...) > The crypto currency craze while definitely was a horrible phase, it did end up giving america a lot of advantages, it incurred a ton of demand for american GPU tech which helped it advance faster and have more cash reserves to take risks, this allowed usa to get a headstart to AI which if it uses well, will usher in a new era of innovation for you guys. You might argue that we could just spent 1/20th the amount in gpu market and gotten the same result, but truth is prolly wouldn’t have happened that way. > You can also tax the shit out of large capital in a non-linear fashion which, unlike inflation, will not hit the small savers. This will never happen, it’ll cause all of the money to flee out of america overnight, it’s the reason why usa and europe is desperately trying to increase the minimum corporate tax rate globally. In a post globalised world, it’s no longer as simple as just pulling a lever. > which is the only way to really drive out the oligopoly The way to drive oligopoly out is by breaking up oligopolies and bringing competition into the market, usa has done this several times, standard oil, AT&T, etc. You cant shove people’s wallet out into the ocean, and tell them they either spend it or lose it, they’ll panic, they’ll scream for safety, if they cant keep the money in bank, where will they invest ? The most safest and established businesses, ala those oligopolies. You cant force them to spend and then expect them to start gambling left and right, they’ll instead just want to find safer shores. The only reliable way to breaking up monopolies is to break up monopolies. > just a rose-tinted glance at our current situation in post-capitalism. You’re right, after reading a few more responses i realised i made the comment a bit too hastily and impulsively not seeing through what everything i said actually meant. But I also don’t think, it’s that “wrong” even the most greedy want to invest in the sane things, if people invested in so many unsustainable businesses, it means there weren’t enough sustainable options to put in that money in the first place. If USA had not created that 0% interest rate environment, it wouldn’t have been able to take any advantage of the petro dollar benefits. Initially USA had expected the middle east to invest all their earnings into america, that they got paid with usd for oil, instead most of the money went to asia. That was just the first sign of trouble in usa. That along with stupid government policies around offshoring so much production to a communist country like China didnt help either. So yes, i agree with you, it was a bad move, but it wasn’t VCs that created america’s impending ruin, its government policy.
- poisonborz 3y ago
  And megacorps surely haven't taken extreme measures to avoid those taxes, also lobbying the crap out of officials who avoid enforcing them in the first place to not lose cool points in ""the global tech race"". Weirdly the good example here is Russia and China where the state did not refrain from extreme measures to show the market whales their place.
  - te_chris 3y ago
    China, maybe. But mafia state Russia??? Come on.
te_chris 3y ago
I think you're confusing the last few years for productive innovation. It wasn't. A whole bunch of valuable capital got pissed away because LPs were desperate for any gains they could get. The world is different now, gains have to be earned. Thankfully there's more than enough opportunities rather than over-funded SaaS startups providing services to other over funded SaaS startups. And that's before we even get to crypto. Hell, I'm not even bitter, good on you all who got the grift! It was absolutely a grift, though.
- izacus 3y ago
  Isn't that also visible downstream with Chinese companies enroaching into US markets to the point where bans need to be instated to protect stagnating US companies? Just a decade back it would be unthinkable to have Chinese companies compete on anything besides cheapness against US tech.
  - teitoklien 3y ago
    That is more due to the Chinese government much more strategically investing in their economy with long term planning, instead of this polarized ping pong game between republicans and democrats - Also, chinese companies get advantage from their currency not being the global currency, while usd being the global currency allows usa to spur up almost infinite debt and loans without any penalties, or severe inflation, it forces the federal reserves in keeping usd a stable reserve store. This makes american exports significantly uncompetitive, while china can make its exports cheaper. Not to mention fewer regulations, negligible IP enforcement, obscene strategic IP theft from american companies at the nation state level, have all helped china reach this stage. This wasn’t caused by VC , but rather American politicians sleeping and fighting amongst themselves when they were awake, while china ate your lunch.
    - te_chris 3y ago
      Partially, but China is also struggling and needs to export to offset the shitshow in the property market and slumping demand.

kaoD 3y ago

That's a very nice way to put it, but in reality this turned out to be money not spent wisely and instead distorting the market. This often does not lead to innovation, see e.g. the absolutely zero innovation that we got from the cryptocurrency craze. It could even stifle innovation by distorting the market in weird ways, driving away the money from productive (but less speculative) endeavors. > It’s why having deflation or 0 inflation in an economy is bad, because they want people to invest back and take risks in an economy ? You can also tax the shit out of large capital in a non-linear fashion which, unlike inflation, will not hit the small savers. This will still encourage that capital to not stay in banks, while helping small savers to build capital (which is the only way to really drive out the oligopoly) instead of riding the funding wave and hoping for an exit out of a business built on burning money which will only make the corporate conglomerates even bigger when they acquire you (which is your only incentive as a business-owner, to strive for an exit, since otherwise you'll just be hemorrhaging money from your "business"). Note I don't think this is the way to go, I just think the common narrative (which I saw implicitly in your comment, forgive me if I'm wrong) is just a rose-tinted glance at our current situation in post-capitalism.

teitoklien 3y ago
You’re right I missed some important stuff, came across this a bit later, a couple of minutes ago: [Destruction of America’s middle class](https://seekingalpha.com/article/4346450-federal-reserve-and-ongoing-destruction-of-bottom-90-percent https://seekingalpha.com/article/4346450-federal-reserve-and...) > The crypto currency craze while definitely was a horrible phase, it did end up giving america a lot of advantages, it incurred a ton of demand for american GPU tech which helped it advance faster and have more cash reserves to take risks, this allowed usa to get a headstart to AI which if it uses well, will usher in a new era of innovation for you guys. You might argue that we could just spent 1/20th the amount in gpu market and gotten the same result, but truth is prolly wouldn’t have happened that way. > You can also tax the shit out of large capital in a non-linear fashion which, unlike inflation, will not hit the small savers. This will never happen, it’ll cause all of the money to flee out of america overnight, it’s the reason why usa and europe is desperately trying to increase the minimum corporate tax rate globally. In a post globalised world, it’s no longer as simple as just pulling a lever. > which is the only way to really drive out the oligopoly The way to drive oligopoly out is by breaking up oligopolies and bringing competition into the market, usa has done this several times, standard oil, AT&T, etc. You cant shove people’s wallet out into the ocean, and tell them they either spend it or lose it, they’ll panic, they’ll scream for safety, if they cant keep the money in bank, where will they invest ? The most safest and established businesses, ala those oligopolies. You cant force them to spend and then expect them to start gambling left and right, they’ll instead just want to find safer shores. The only reliable way to breaking up monopolies is to break up monopolies. > just a rose-tinted glance at our current situation in post-capitalism. You’re right, after reading a few more responses i realised i made the comment a bit too hastily and impulsively not seeing through what everything i said actually meant. But I also don’t think, it’s that “wrong” even the most greedy want to invest in the sane things, if people invested in so many unsustainable businesses, it means there weren’t enough sustainable options to put in that money in the first place. If USA had not created that 0% interest rate environment, it wouldn’t have been able to take any advantage of the petro dollar benefits. Initially USA had expected the middle east to invest all their earnings into america, that they got paid with usd for oil, instead most of the money went to asia. That was just the first sign of trouble in usa. That along with stupid government policies around offshoring so much production to a communist country like China didnt help either. So yes, i agree with you, it was a bad move, but it wasn’t VCs that created america’s impending ruin, its government policy.
poisonborz 3y ago
And megacorps surely haven't taken extreme measures to avoid those taxes, also lobbying the crap out of officials who avoid enforcing them in the first place to not lose cool points in ""the global tech race"". Weirdly the good example here is Russia and China where the state did not refrain from extreme measures to show the market whales their place.
- te_chris 3y ago
  China, maybe. But mafia state Russia??? Come on.

te_chris 3y ago

I think you're confusing the last few years for productive innovation. It wasn't. A whole bunch of valuable capital got pissed away because LPs were desperate for any gains they could get. The world is different now, gains have to be earned. Thankfully there's more than enough opportunities rather than over-funded SaaS startups providing services to other over funded SaaS startups. And that's before we even get to crypto. Hell, I'm not even bitter, good on you all who got the grift! It was absolutely a grift, though.

izacus 3y ago
Isn't that also visible downstream with Chinese companies enroaching into US markets to the point where bans need to be instated to protect stagnating US companies? Just a decade back it would be unthinkable to have Chinese companies compete on anything besides cheapness against US tech.
- teitoklien 3y ago
  That is more due to the Chinese government much more strategically investing in their economy with long term planning, instead of this polarized ping pong game between republicans and democrats - Also, chinese companies get advantage from their currency not being the global currency, while usd being the global currency allows usa to spur up almost infinite debt and loans without any penalties, or severe inflation, it forces the federal reserves in keeping usd a stable reserve store. This makes american exports significantly uncompetitive, while china can make its exports cheaper. Not to mention fewer regulations, negligible IP enforcement, obscene strategic IP theft from american companies at the nation state level, have all helped china reach this stage. This wasn’t caused by VC , but rather American politicians sleeping and fighting amongst themselves when they were awake, while china ate your lunch.
  - te_chris 3y ago
    Partially, but China is also struggling and needs to export to offset the shitshow in the property market and slumping demand.