5 ms·

do you understand why they get paid that much in the US...?

alephnerd 3y ago
School is expensive, there's more money to go around, and the opportunity cost is much higher.
Jensson 3y ago
USA has too few so it pushes wages up. That is what happens when you don't have a free market, lots of people who want to become doctors aren't allowed to creating artificially high wages. Physicians per 1000 people: Germany: 4.25 France: 3.27 USA: 2.61
- Grustaf 3y ago
  Why aren’t they allowed to become doctors?
  - sct202 3y ago
    Lack of residencies which are funded by the government. Medicial schools in the US try to get as many students placed into residency as possible so they control admissions to match residency slots, because if you don't have a residency you cannot become a doctor and med school costs $200k-$500k so it's life wrecking if a student doesn't match. The side effect is that we have a lot of pseudo-doctors who have roles that overlap in capabilities with doctors like Physicians Assistants and Nurse Practitioners to fill in the gap.
  - addicted 3y ago
    The “allowed” terminology indicates they’re gonna suggest AMA licensing, etc. never mind that every country has those, and probably more restrictive versions. One of the major reasons the U.S. has low physicians numbers is because med school is just so expensive. You either have to pay a ridiculous amount of money upfront, but more importantly, need to figure out how to pay for your existence for nearly your entire 20s where you’re studying and not earning, or you need to take massive student loans. That’s just too much of a ln upfront burden or risk for large chunks of the population to take.
    - arethuza 3y ago
      "because med school is just so expensive" Doesn't the US also require that people study medicine as a second degree? That can't help with the costs... e.g. Here in the UK you can go straight from high school to study medicine at university.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      > AMA licensing, etc. never mind that every country has those, and probably more restrictive versions. How can they be more restrictive when they are licensing way more doctors? USA is at the bottom of the developed world in number of physicians per capita but also pay the most. The only plausible way that can be true is if USA is the most restrictive in the developed world, like requiring way more years of schooling than necessary or limiting residency spots or limiting how many schools are allowed to educate doctors or making it hard for immigrants to become doctors etc. Japan has less doctors, but they are also among the healthiest in the world so maybe they don't require as many for that reason. But USA is at the other end of the healthiness spectrum so you can't use that explanation there.
  - thereddaikon 3y ago
    Medical school is very expensive.
    - Grustaf 3y ago
      Sure, but I reacted to the idea that some people were not “allowed”.
      - thereddaikon 3y ago
        High cost creates a barrier to entry. And it can often be an intentional one. See luxury goods as an example. Almost all luxury items are sold at insane profit margins and cost nowhere near that much to make. But the high price is the differentiator itself. Is a Gucci branded article of clothing that much better? No of course not. The value is indirectly signally to others you have the money to afford gucci. Poors not allowed. Other things can have their access limited by price in similar ways. Raising the price is a very effective way of keeping the poors out. Its not always intentional. But many times it can be.

School is expensive, there's more money to go around, and the opportunity cost is much higher.

USA has too few so it pushes wages up. That is what happens when you don't have a free market, lots of people who want to become doctors aren't allowed to creating artificially high wages. Physicians per 1000 people: Germany: 4.25 France: 3.27 USA: 2.61

Grustaf 3y ago
Why aren’t they allowed to become doctors?
- sct202 3y ago
  Lack of residencies which are funded by the government. Medicial schools in the US try to get as many students placed into residency as possible so they control admissions to match residency slots, because if you don't have a residency you cannot become a doctor and med school costs $200k-$500k so it's life wrecking if a student doesn't match. The side effect is that we have a lot of pseudo-doctors who have roles that overlap in capabilities with doctors like Physicians Assistants and Nurse Practitioners to fill in the gap.
- addicted 3y ago
  The “allowed” terminology indicates they’re gonna suggest AMA licensing, etc. never mind that every country has those, and probably more restrictive versions. One of the major reasons the U.S. has low physicians numbers is because med school is just so expensive. You either have to pay a ridiculous amount of money upfront, but more importantly, need to figure out how to pay for your existence for nearly your entire 20s where you’re studying and not earning, or you need to take massive student loans. That’s just too much of a ln upfront burden or risk for large chunks of the population to take.
  - arethuza 3y ago
    "because med school is just so expensive" Doesn't the US also require that people study medicine as a second degree? That can't help with the costs... e.g. Here in the UK you can go straight from high school to study medicine at university.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    > AMA licensing, etc. never mind that every country has those, and probably more restrictive versions. How can they be more restrictive when they are licensing way more doctors? USA is at the bottom of the developed world in number of physicians per capita but also pay the most. The only plausible way that can be true is if USA is the most restrictive in the developed world, like requiring way more years of schooling than necessary or limiting residency spots or limiting how many schools are allowed to educate doctors or making it hard for immigrants to become doctors etc. Japan has less doctors, but they are also among the healthiest in the world so maybe they don't require as many for that reason. But USA is at the other end of the healthiness spectrum so you can't use that explanation there.
- thereddaikon 3y ago
  Medical school is very expensive.
  - Grustaf 3y ago
    Sure, but I reacted to the idea that some people were not “allowed”.
    - thereddaikon 3y ago
      High cost creates a barrier to entry. And it can often be an intentional one. See luxury goods as an example. Almost all luxury items are sold at insane profit margins and cost nowhere near that much to make. But the high price is the differentiator itself. Is a Gucci branded article of clothing that much better? No of course not. The value is indirectly signally to others you have the money to afford gucci. Poors not allowed. Other things can have their access limited by price in similar ways. Raising the price is a very effective way of keeping the poors out. Its not always intentional. But many times it can be.