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Yeah, people who are into watches don't actually look very highly upon Rolex owners, especially people who own a submariner. The message it conveys is essentia

Yeah, people who are into watches don't actually look very highly upon Rolex owners, especially people who own a submariner. The message it conveys is essentially, "I have some of money, but nothing interesting to say."

ksaj 3y ago
Essentially the same thought here, as I always thought of it as the "actually rich" versus the "nouveau riche."
evantbyrne 3y ago
Sounds like car people. It doesn't really cross your mind what elitists think of your cheap Mustang when you're stacking the neighbor girls on top of each other in the back though.
- ksaj 3y ago
  Part of what was being said though, is that people will often buy a Submariner as a status symbol, yet won't even understand how the functions on it work, and don't go diving anyway. So it's a lot like wearing an expensive brand label on a cheap tee-shirt, in that the people who know... know that the person is pretending to be someone they aren't. Nouveau riche are notorious for buying things that they can't really use the way they were built to be used, and often wouldn't know how to use them when given the opportunity. That's the disdain being mentioned. It's not being snobby. It's recognizing people with fake status symbols. If your story to be told is about stacking girls, then Mustang it is. That's being honest.
  - evantbyrne 3y ago
    It's not a fake status symbol if it's the real watch. Old money gatekeeps silly things like the car you drive or the watch you wear because they are threatened by new money. It's a physical reminder that people can in fact buy their way into the upper class and old money is nothing special. Old money has tried to change the narrative by making class about which luxury beliefs a person holds rather than physical goods for the same reason. It's all driven by insecurity.
    - hnfong 3y ago
      I think the GP's point is that if one feels the need to use a status symbol, they're already pretending to be someone they aren't. Of course a status symbol works to a large extent, otherwise people wouldn't be spending money on them. I'm nowhere near the social circles of "old money", but I'd imagine they're more amused with seeing people trying too hard to push themselves into upper society, than being insecure about their own status. I mean, I don't have to be upper class to find this behavior somewhat comical.
      - evantbyrne 3y ago
        How is it any more comical than a richer guy buying a different expensive watch to impress his peers? Pricey watches are obviously intended to be status symbols above all else, whether or not you dive.
        ksaj 3y ago
        Truly rich people don't buy things to impress other people. They buy things that impress and inspire themselves, and that are not directly connected to the nuevo riche who are trying to emulate them.
        evantbyrne 3y ago
        First time I've heard the No True Rich Man argument. I will have to keep that one in the back pocket. Truly an innovative way to spin luxury spending as a virtue.
  - wrboyce 3y ago
    Sorry if this is a daft question, but what functions are you talking about?
ghostbrainalpha 3y ago
I promise I mean this question honestly and not sarcastic. But if having a rolex means you have some money but nothing to say... What type of watch do real watch people buy? And what interesting thing are they saying through their purchase?
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  It really depends a lot on the exact watch, since a lot of them have distinct character. The most prestigious brand is Patek Philippe. The nerds of wall street often wear IWCs. Blancpain, Panerai, Vacheron Constantin, and Breguet all have interesting offerings. The right Rolex (eg a yachtmaster for a passionate sailor) can also say something interesting. The point is that your watch and its style and complications should ideally reflect what you value and want to show the world. This is kind of the same as car people at this point - there's no right answer, but there are some wrong ones.
  - etrautmann 3y ago
    That seems like a heavy lift for a watch unless we’re deciding that the watch brand and model is a shibboleth for other social groupings.
    - pclmulqdq 3y ago
      I take it you are not into watches. Watches, cars, ties, and all other kinds of mens' fashion accessories are all the same, it's about communicating who you are through what you wear. Women know a lot about this because it's pretty much mandatory to adopt that attitude about women's clothing. High-end menswear is the same: if you're going to spend the money, spend it on something that fits you. By the way, nobody who cares about watches will ding you (in terms of social status) for not wearing a watch or wearing a non-fashion watch like an apple watch or a swatch. If you're not into it, you don't have to partake.
      - etrautmann 3y ago
        Yep, I'd describe myself as not into really anything fashion-wise, although when I think about that harder it's inevitable regardless of what world someone occupies. For me, I'd notice things like outdoor gear and computer peripherals as signals (intentional or otherwise), and much as I'd like to pretend those don't exist, that layer is ever present, for better or worse.

ksaj 3y ago

Essentially the same thought here, as I always thought of it as the "actually rich" versus the "nouveau riche."

evantbyrne 3y ago

Sounds like car people. It doesn't really cross your mind what elitists think of your cheap Mustang when you're stacking the neighbor girls on top of each other in the back though.

ksaj 3y ago
Part of what was being said though, is that people will often buy a Submariner as a status symbol, yet won't even understand how the functions on it work, and don't go diving anyway. So it's a lot like wearing an expensive brand label on a cheap tee-shirt, in that the people who know... know that the person is pretending to be someone they aren't. Nouveau riche are notorious for buying things that they can't really use the way they were built to be used, and often wouldn't know how to use them when given the opportunity. That's the disdain being mentioned. It's not being snobby. It's recognizing people with fake status symbols. If your story to be told is about stacking girls, then Mustang it is. That's being honest.
- evantbyrne 3y ago
  It's not a fake status symbol if it's the real watch. Old money gatekeeps silly things like the car you drive or the watch you wear because they are threatened by new money. It's a physical reminder that people can in fact buy their way into the upper class and old money is nothing special. Old money has tried to change the narrative by making class about which luxury beliefs a person holds rather than physical goods for the same reason. It's all driven by insecurity.
  - hnfong 3y ago
    I think the GP's point is that if one feels the need to use a status symbol, they're already pretending to be someone they aren't. Of course a status symbol works to a large extent, otherwise people wouldn't be spending money on them. I'm nowhere near the social circles of "old money", but I'd imagine they're more amused with seeing people trying too hard to push themselves into upper society, than being insecure about their own status. I mean, I don't have to be upper class to find this behavior somewhat comical.
    - evantbyrne 3y ago
      How is it any more comical than a richer guy buying a different expensive watch to impress his peers? Pricey watches are obviously intended to be status symbols above all else, whether or not you dive.
      - ksaj 3y ago
        Truly rich people don't buy things to impress other people. They buy things that impress and inspire themselves, and that are not directly connected to the nuevo riche who are trying to emulate them.
        evantbyrne 3y ago
        First time I've heard the No True Rich Man argument. I will have to keep that one in the back pocket. Truly an innovative way to spin luxury spending as a virtue.
- wrboyce 3y ago
  Sorry if this is a daft question, but what functions are you talking about?

ghostbrainalpha 3y ago

I promise I mean this question honestly and not sarcastic. But if having a rolex means you have some money but nothing to say... What type of watch do real watch people buy? And what interesting thing are they saying through their purchase?

pclmulqdq 3y ago
It really depends a lot on the exact watch, since a lot of them have distinct character. The most prestigious brand is Patek Philippe. The nerds of wall street often wear IWCs. Blancpain, Panerai, Vacheron Constantin, and Breguet all have interesting offerings. The right Rolex (eg a yachtmaster for a passionate sailor) can also say something interesting. The point is that your watch and its style and complications should ideally reflect what you value and want to show the world. This is kind of the same as car people at this point - there's no right answer, but there are some wrong ones.
- etrautmann 3y ago
  That seems like a heavy lift for a watch unless we’re deciding that the watch brand and model is a shibboleth for other social groupings.
  - pclmulqdq 3y ago
    I take it you are not into watches. Watches, cars, ties, and all other kinds of mens' fashion accessories are all the same, it's about communicating who you are through what you wear. Women know a lot about this because it's pretty much mandatory to adopt that attitude about women's clothing. High-end menswear is the same: if you're going to spend the money, spend it on something that fits you. By the way, nobody who cares about watches will ding you (in terms of social status) for not wearing a watch or wearing a non-fashion watch like an apple watch or a swatch. If you're not into it, you don't have to partake.
    - etrautmann 3y ago
      Yep, I'd describe myself as not into really anything fashion-wise, although when I think about that harder it's inevitable regardless of what world someone occupies. For me, I'd notice things like outdoor gear and computer peripherals as signals (intentional or otherwise), and much as I'd like to pretend those don't exist, that layer is ever present, for better or worse.