3 ms·

> Inconveniently, metal that contacts silicon, metal that crosses over silicon, and metal that forms a transistor all appear very similar in this chip. This mak

> Inconveniently, metal that contacts silicon, metal that crosses over silicon, and metal that forms a transistor all appear very similar in this chip. This makes it more difficult to determine the wiring. I've heard that all diodes are LEDs, if one's vision extends to the infrared. Is it possible to fire up the chip and photograph it in the infrared, and would that make the transistors stand out?

KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
High resolution thermal imaging is tightly regulated
- philipkglass 3y ago
  The emission from silicon referred to by myself248 is in the near infrared, not the thermal range. It's a commonly used diagnostic technique for silicon solar cells: https://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/characterisation/electroluminescence https://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/characterisation/electro... I don't know if it could be used for the much smaller features found on integrated circuits, though.
- gorkish 3y ago
  As the restrictions are now blocking the IMPORT of such equipment it really is getting to be quite a joke. In the US we are only allowed to have expensive potato quality cameras with 9fps and even then that's not shitty enough -- they also have to have to inject artificial noise into it!
- lightedman 3y ago
  Thermal is not the same as near-red IR, which is what is being discussed here.
- acuozzo 3y ago
  Why?
  - voakbasda 3y ago
    Because the government knows IR would be a pivotal tool in a civilian guerrilla uprising, and they want to keep such things out of the hands of the proletariat?
    - acuozzo 3y ago
      Got it. It was a genuine question asked out of ignorance on my part. How would the extra resolution be useful in warfare?
      - KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
        Anti aircraft missiles (everything from plane launched to manpads), heat seeking weaponry capabilities, night vision, multispectrum sensors, optical gas imaging and a whole host of other dual use scientific applications. High resolution thermal vision is the lynchpin behind all of them. I am not sure why they are still tightly controlled since you can easily acquire them overseas.
        voakbasda 3y ago
        The US government is terrified of its citizenry, as they are the only people that stand a chance of “fixing” it.
kens 3y ago
Well, John McMaster was able to do some IR imaging of a chip: https://hackaday.com/2019/06/20/seeing-transistors-switch-in-infrared/ https://hackaday.com/2019/06/20/seeing-transistors-switch-in... But in this case, I think it's easier to squint at the die to distinguish the features by subtle differences in color. It's possible to tell them apart, but I wasted a lot of time before realizing "Oh, that's a transistor‽"
doubled112 3y ago
I've been successful at making many electronic parts light emitters even when they're not designed to be. Some last longer than others under the conditions.

KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago

High resolution thermal imaging is tightly regulated

philipkglass 3y ago
The emission from silicon referred to by myself248 is in the near infrared, not the thermal range. It's a commonly used diagnostic technique for silicon solar cells: https://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/characterisation/electroluminescence https://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/characterisation/electro... I don't know if it could be used for the much smaller features found on integrated circuits, though.
gorkish 3y ago
As the restrictions are now blocking the IMPORT of such equipment it really is getting to be quite a joke. In the US we are only allowed to have expensive potato quality cameras with 9fps and even then that's not shitty enough -- they also have to have to inject artificial noise into it!
lightedman 3y ago
Thermal is not the same as near-red IR, which is what is being discussed here.
acuozzo 3y ago
Why?
- voakbasda 3y ago
  Because the government knows IR would be a pivotal tool in a civilian guerrilla uprising, and they want to keep such things out of the hands of the proletariat?
  - acuozzo 3y ago
    Got it. It was a genuine question asked out of ignorance on my part. How would the extra resolution be useful in warfare?
    - KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
      Anti aircraft missiles (everything from plane launched to manpads), heat seeking weaponry capabilities, night vision, multispectrum sensors, optical gas imaging and a whole host of other dual use scientific applications. High resolution thermal vision is the lynchpin behind all of them. I am not sure why they are still tightly controlled since you can easily acquire them overseas.
      - voakbasda 3y ago
        The US government is terrified of its citizenry, as they are the only people that stand a chance of “fixing” it.

kens 3y ago

Well, John McMaster was able to do some IR imaging of a chip: https://hackaday.com/2019/06/20/seeing-transistors-switch-in-infrared/ https://hackaday.com/2019/06/20/seeing-transistors-switch-in... But in this case, I think it's easier to squint at the die to distinguish the features by subtle differences in color. It's possible to tell them apart, but I wasted a lot of time before realizing "Oh, that's a transistor‽"

doubled112 3y ago

I've been successful at making many electronic parts light emitters even when they're not designed to be. Some last longer than others under the conditions.