5 ms·

I can say that I have never heard of a single person not flying somewhere because of the TSA or other security ruined flying for them. Maybe it wasn't actually

I can say that I have never heard of a single person not flying somewhere because of the TSA or other security ruined flying for them. Maybe it wasn't actually good and you're just blindly believing the nostalgia of older folks.

digging 3y ago
Those seem to be two different things though. But to you first point, I definitely fly less than I would if we got rid of TSA. They're a fucking nightmare in my city.
reaperman 3y ago
Oh I would absolutely fly more if the TSA process was less onerous. Hands down. But the entire airport process is so painful that it's just not worth it for a lot of things. Like Houston to New Orleans would 100% be a flight, but with the current security (and check-in process)...I just drive instead. It also regularly makes me reconsider flying longer distances and I choose leisure destinations/activities that are more drivable instead. This reduces my flying by a potential 4-8 round trip flights per year for me personally.
deodar 3y ago
Here's my anecdote. It was really good, as someone who flew pre 9/11. I remember reaching Logan airport 20 minutes before my scheduled flight in 2001 thanks to Boston's traffic. I walked to the gate unimpeded (nothing to check in). Zero stress. Part of it is also that flights used to be much less overbooked and the overall experience was better and this isn't just nostalgia. However I don't think it's completely fair to blame the TSA for the worsened experience. The threat model has changed since then. Add to that shrinking seats, worse customer service, more crowded airports, and the experience is much worse. A few years back, we decided to minimize air travel and take a lot more local vacations. Yes, we miss flying but at some point the hassle exceeded the desire to visit exotic locales.
- shermantanktop 3y ago
  Europe, mid-1970s: Bader-Meinhof is in full swing; Palestinian, Armenian, and other groups were planting bombs. Plane hijacking was a new tactic with much news coverage. The modern age of assassination hysteria that started with JFK was still going. Did we fly like those nostalgic pics of businessmen and their wives smoking and eating steak? No, we stood like scared refugees, with heavily armed military personnel and German shepherds walking around scanning the crowd. I was a little kid in Zurich but remember it well. 9/11 may feel like a turning point in airport security, but it just brought to America what has been happening in other places at other times. And apparently made it permanent.
- pixl97 3y ago
  Eh also add that most years number of people traveling by flight increases. 2009 and 2020-2021 were outliers. We're dealing with around 20% more fliers than 2000 but most major destination airports have not expanded in kind to deal with the additional traffic. Also add in housing incursion to most airports where development has got closer making it near impossible for current airports to expand.
- chrismcb 3y ago
  There are lots of issues with flying. Fees galore, fewer amenities on the plane, smaller seats, etc. Yeah, you can't blame any of that on TSA. But having to arrive at the airport several hours before my flight, yeah I can blame that on TSA or it's equivalent counterpart in foreign countries. But what is worse is there is no obvious upside for TSA. It costs time and money with no apparent increase in safety. In fact the only time I'm unsafe is when I'm going through the security line. That is standing in a bottleneck next to barrels of suspected explosives and letting my bags out of my sight.
JohnFen 3y ago
> I have never heard of a single person not flying somewhere because of the TSA or other security ruined flying for them. There have been quite a few flights I've not taken because of the security gauntlet. I really only fly when there is no other realistic option -- which means I that I only rarely do it recreationally anymore at all. Getting to the plane has become utterly horrible.
- daedalus_j 3y ago
  It's really not that bad if you have GlobalEntry/TSA Pre. I've been through quite a few airports since getting it and never had an issue. Not as easy as when I was pound atd you could walk right up to the boarding gate to meet someone getting off a plane, but definitely not horrible or even challenging. However, that's with TSA Pre. I recently flew through Orlando and good gods that security line was a disaster. I'm an Abolish-the-TSA type, they do more harm than good, don't get me wrong, but if you want to fly just go get GlobalEntry, and everything is quite painless. (right up until you get to the gate and the airline starts screwing you, but that's a different problem.)
  - bradknowles 3y ago
    GlobalEntry only helps if you're flying international, and even then it only helps you once you land and everyone else is standing in the line at passport control. It doesn't do squat for you if you're staying in the same country.
    - chrismcb 3y ago
      Global entry gives you pre check.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > It's really not that bad if you have GlobalEntry/TSA Pre. Yes, that's what I hear. That's well beyond what I am willing to do, though.
phd514 3y ago
Maybe get out more? I know _lots_ of people for whom this is true and who take multi-day road trips rather than deal with air travel. I routinely flew for business before 9/11 and would typically show up about 15 minutes before boarding time at one of the three busiest airports in the US and typically got through security and would then had to wait 5-7 minutes before boarding would start. Air travel is radically different than it was pre-9/11.

digging 3y ago

Those seem to be two different things though. But to you first point, I definitely fly less than I would if we got rid of TSA. They're a fucking nightmare in my city.

reaperman 3y ago

Oh I would absolutely fly more if the TSA process was less onerous. Hands down. But the entire airport process is so painful that it's just not worth it for a lot of things. Like Houston to New Orleans would 100% be a flight, but with the current security (and check-in process)...I just drive instead. It also regularly makes me reconsider flying longer distances and I choose leisure destinations/activities that are more drivable instead. This reduces my flying by a potential 4-8 round trip flights per year for me personally.

deodar 3y ago

Here's my anecdote. It was really good, as someone who flew pre 9/11. I remember reaching Logan airport 20 minutes before my scheduled flight in 2001 thanks to Boston's traffic. I walked to the gate unimpeded (nothing to check in). Zero stress. Part of it is also that flights used to be much less overbooked and the overall experience was better and this isn't just nostalgia. However I don't think it's completely fair to blame the TSA for the worsened experience. The threat model has changed since then. Add to that shrinking seats, worse customer service, more crowded airports, and the experience is much worse. A few years back, we decided to minimize air travel and take a lot more local vacations. Yes, we miss flying but at some point the hassle exceeded the desire to visit exotic locales.

shermantanktop 3y ago
Europe, mid-1970s: Bader-Meinhof is in full swing; Palestinian, Armenian, and other groups were planting bombs. Plane hijacking was a new tactic with much news coverage. The modern age of assassination hysteria that started with JFK was still going. Did we fly like those nostalgic pics of businessmen and their wives smoking and eating steak? No, we stood like scared refugees, with heavily armed military personnel and German shepherds walking around scanning the crowd. I was a little kid in Zurich but remember it well. 9/11 may feel like a turning point in airport security, but it just brought to America what has been happening in other places at other times. And apparently made it permanent.
pixl97 3y ago
Eh also add that most years number of people traveling by flight increases. 2009 and 2020-2021 were outliers. We're dealing with around 20% more fliers than 2000 but most major destination airports have not expanded in kind to deal with the additional traffic. Also add in housing incursion to most airports where development has got closer making it near impossible for current airports to expand.
chrismcb 3y ago
There are lots of issues with flying. Fees galore, fewer amenities on the plane, smaller seats, etc. Yeah, you can't blame any of that on TSA. But having to arrive at the airport several hours before my flight, yeah I can blame that on TSA or it's equivalent counterpart in foreign countries. But what is worse is there is no obvious upside for TSA. It costs time and money with no apparent increase in safety. In fact the only time I'm unsafe is when I'm going through the security line. That is standing in a bottleneck next to barrels of suspected explosives and letting my bags out of my sight.

JohnFen 3y ago

> I have never heard of a single person not flying somewhere because of the TSA or other security ruined flying for them. There have been quite a few flights I've not taken because of the security gauntlet. I really only fly when there is no other realistic option -- which means I that I only rarely do it recreationally anymore at all. Getting to the plane has become utterly horrible.

daedalus_j 3y ago
It's really not that bad if you have GlobalEntry/TSA Pre. I've been through quite a few airports since getting it and never had an issue. Not as easy as when I was pound atd you could walk right up to the boarding gate to meet someone getting off a plane, but definitely not horrible or even challenging. However, that's with TSA Pre. I recently flew through Orlando and good gods that security line was a disaster. I'm an Abolish-the-TSA type, they do more harm than good, don't get me wrong, but if you want to fly just go get GlobalEntry, and everything is quite painless. (right up until you get to the gate and the airline starts screwing you, but that's a different problem.)
- bradknowles 3y ago
  GlobalEntry only helps if you're flying international, and even then it only helps you once you land and everyone else is standing in the line at passport control. It doesn't do squat for you if you're staying in the same country.
  - chrismcb 3y ago
    Global entry gives you pre check.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > It's really not that bad if you have GlobalEntry/TSA Pre. Yes, that's what I hear. That's well beyond what I am willing to do, though.

phd514 3y ago

Maybe get out more? I know _lots_ of people for whom this is true and who take multi-day road trips rather than deal with air travel. I routinely flew for business before 9/11 and would typically show up about 15 minutes before boarding time at one of the three busiest airports in the US and typically got through security and would then had to wait 5-7 minutes before boarding would start. Air travel is radically different than it was pre-9/11.