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You mean how VW directed their dealerships to deny there was a power problem while also directing their engineering team to come up with a fix? Sounds pretty s

You mean how VW directed their dealerships to deny there was a power problem while also directing their engineering team to come up with a fix? Sounds pretty similar to me.

bumby 3y ago
Yes. So I’m assuming from your statement, you would agree that Tesla c/should be fine billions of dollars for fraud, just as VW was? To be clear, I’m not saying Tesla is unique in this regard. I’m saying there are degrees ranging from “good faith engineering mistakes that are handled appropriately” and “fraud”. The Tesla memos and whistleblower claims seem to tilt it closer to the latter.
- onethought 3y ago
  Agree. But further than fines. They should fix their certification program to include sampling. Not just testing a purpose made testing vehicle.
  - bumby 3y ago
    I agree with this. I wonder if they require their suppliers to be ISO 9001 certified. It's incredibly common in the legacy auto manufacturers. The fact that it wasn't mentioned by Tesla in any of their rebuttals makes me wonder if they deviated from this best practice. If so, they seem to be forcing themselves to relearn the same mistakes of their predecessors. This certification area is one I've given some thought to. I think, especially in the AV space, there is a need for an improved standardized certification process. But to be fair, the VW diesel scandal followed a standardized EPA test, and they still gamed it, so it has to be carefully thought out.
    - onethought 3y ago
      That is why I think it should be some form of sampling. Where the agency assessing can pick a random vehicle from the factory and test it. It would make gamifying a lot more difficult
      - bumby 3y ago
        Sampling wouldn't have helped in the VW emissions case. All the cars had the same software to detect if it was on the road or at a test stand and adjust the fuel mapping accordingly. Maybe in the future, they'll do road tests. IMO, any time you can test it in a higher fidelity environment, the better. There's a lot that needs to be worked out on the testing side to prevent gaming the system.

You mean how VW directed their dealerships to deny there was a power problem while also directing their engineering team to come up with a fix? Sounds pretty similar to me.

bumby 3y ago

Yes. So I’m assuming from your statement, you would agree that Tesla c/should be fine billions of dollars for fraud, just as VW was? To be clear, I’m not saying Tesla is unique in this regard. I’m saying there are degrees ranging from “good faith engineering mistakes that are handled appropriately” and “fraud”. The Tesla memos and whistleblower claims seem to tilt it closer to the latter.

onethought 3y ago
Agree. But further than fines. They should fix their certification program to include sampling. Not just testing a purpose made testing vehicle.
- bumby 3y ago
  I agree with this. I wonder if they require their suppliers to be ISO 9001 certified. It's incredibly common in the legacy auto manufacturers. The fact that it wasn't mentioned by Tesla in any of their rebuttals makes me wonder if they deviated from this best practice. If so, they seem to be forcing themselves to relearn the same mistakes of their predecessors. This certification area is one I've given some thought to. I think, especially in the AV space, there is a need for an improved standardized certification process. But to be fair, the VW diesel scandal followed a standardized EPA test, and they still gamed it, so it has to be carefully thought out.
  - onethought 3y ago
    That is why I think it should be some form of sampling. Where the agency assessing can pick a random vehicle from the factory and test it. It would make gamifying a lot more difficult
    - bumby 3y ago
      Sampling wouldn't have helped in the VW emissions case. All the cars had the same software to detect if it was on the road or at a test stand and adjust the fuel mapping accordingly. Maybe in the future, they'll do road tests. IMO, any time you can test it in a higher fidelity environment, the better. There's a lot that needs to be worked out on the testing side to prevent gaming the system.