3 ms·

https://www.usgs.gov/programs/earthquake-hazards/science/earthquake-early-warning-overview https://www.usgs.gov/programs/earthquake-hazards/science/ear... “The

by Lammy 3y ago

https://www.usgs.gov/programs/earthquake-hazards/science/earthquake-early-warning-overview https://www.usgs.gov/programs/earthquake-hazards/science/ear... “The speeds of today’s data telecommunications systems are many times faster than seismic waves.” https://public-blog.nrc-gateway.gov/2012/12/28/what-is-a-reactor-trip-and-how-does-it-protect-the-plant/ https://public-blog.nrc-gateway.gov/2012/12/28/what-is-a-rea... “A reactor trip causes all the control rods to insert into the reactor core, and shut down the plant in a very short time (about three seconds).” Yawn.

ceejayoz 3y ago
Japan has automatic shutdown systems during earthquakes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_nuclear_accident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_nuclear_accident > The proximate cause of the accident was the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami, which resulted in electrical grid failure and damaged nearly all of the power plant's backup energy sources. The subsequent inability to sufficiently cool reactors after shutdown compromised containment and resulted in the release of radioactive contaminants into the surrounding environment. Yawn?
- Lammy 3y ago
  Note to self: do not install coastal auxiliary generators below sea-level.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    Or over an active seismic fault?
- philwelch 3y ago
  One person died from radiation exposure at Fukushima, from lung cancer, four years later. More people died from the evacuation. More deaths occur from rooftop solar installations, as fatal roofing accidents are one of the most common workplace fatalities. Electrical linemen also have a high rate of workplace fatalities, which means the power lines themselves are even more deadly.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    Yes, if you don't count "we had to move a hundred thousand people", it wasn't a very big deal.
    - philwelch 3y ago
      The evacuations were likely an overreaction.
      - kelnos 3y ago
        So what? We don't get a do-over. The evacuations -- and all the bad outcomes that followed -- happened.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        It took more than a decade before it was deemed safe for everyone to return, and decommissioning the plant alone is costing tens of billions over several decades.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    Not sure why you're comparing utility-scale generation in Japan to tiny-scale residential generation here. I doubt many people building utility-scale solar farms on the ground are falling off roofs during those builds. Rate of accidents for linemen is irrelevant; you need that sort of work regardless of your generation source.
    - philwelch 3y ago
      Nearly a third of US solar generation is small-scale photovoltaic as of 2021; it's not a "tiny" or insignificant share of solar production..(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_the_United_States#Solar_power_by_type https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_the_United_Stat...).
    - vlovich123 3y ago
      Coal is even more dangerous. In other words, we can’t be so anemic to all risk and nuclear is comparatively very safe. At these levels, the talk of safety is a non-event (like the car everyone drives in every day in is riskier as is flying in an airplane which is also safer than driving a car not to mention gun violence which is “fuck yeah ‘Merica”). The risk here can just be largely ignored as statistical noise. You still need to manage the risk carefully when things do go wrong, but you existing reactor designs are pretty safe when Fukushima which ignored a bunch of warnings actually still turned out to be mostly a nonevent. Also modern reactor designs can’t even melt down so why are we even talking about Fukushima which is using heavy water reactor designs from the 80s?
kelnos 3y ago
Sure, because we all know these safety systems are 100% reliable, and nothing like Fukushima (yes, I know, not quite the same conditions, but that's not the point) could happen again.

by Lammy 3y ago

ceejayoz 3y ago

Japan has automatic shutdown systems during earthquakes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_nuclear_accident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_nuclear_accident > The proximate cause of the accident was the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami, which resulted in electrical grid failure and damaged nearly all of the power plant's backup energy sources. The subsequent inability to sufficiently cool reactors after shutdown compromised containment and resulted in the release of radioactive contaminants into the surrounding environment. Yawn?

Lammy 3y ago
Note to self: do not install coastal auxiliary generators below sea-level.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Or over an active seismic fault?
philwelch 3y ago
One person died from radiation exposure at Fukushima, from lung cancer, four years later. More people died from the evacuation. More deaths occur from rooftop solar installations, as fatal roofing accidents are one of the most common workplace fatalities. Electrical linemen also have a high rate of workplace fatalities, which means the power lines themselves are even more deadly.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Yes, if you don't count "we had to move a hundred thousand people", it wasn't a very big deal.
  - philwelch 3y ago
    The evacuations were likely an overreaction.
    - kelnos 3y ago
      So what? We don't get a do-over. The evacuations -- and all the bad outcomes that followed -- happened.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      It took more than a decade before it was deemed safe for everyone to return, and decommissioning the plant alone is costing tens of billions over several decades.
- kelnos 3y ago
  Not sure why you're comparing utility-scale generation in Japan to tiny-scale residential generation here. I doubt many people building utility-scale solar farms on the ground are falling off roofs during those builds. Rate of accidents for linemen is irrelevant; you need that sort of work regardless of your generation source.
  - philwelch 3y ago
    Nearly a third of US solar generation is small-scale photovoltaic as of 2021; it's not a "tiny" or insignificant share of solar production..(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_the_United_States#Solar_power_by_type https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_the_United_Stat...).
  - vlovich123 3y ago
    Coal is even more dangerous. In other words, we can’t be so anemic to all risk and nuclear is comparatively very safe. At these levels, the talk of safety is a non-event (like the car everyone drives in every day in is riskier as is flying in an airplane which is also safer than driving a car not to mention gun violence which is “fuck yeah ‘Merica”). The risk here can just be largely ignored as statistical noise. You still need to manage the risk carefully when things do go wrong, but you existing reactor designs are pretty safe when Fukushima which ignored a bunch of warnings actually still turned out to be mostly a nonevent. Also modern reactor designs can’t even melt down so why are we even talking about Fukushima which is using heavy water reactor designs from the 80s?

kelnos 3y ago

Sure, because we all know these safety systems are 100% reliable, and nothing like Fukushima (yes, I know, not quite the same conditions, but that's not the point) could happen again.