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Electric cars are better, not worse at almost every metric. If you’re moving the goal posts to subjective opinion on aesthetics, then ok, I have no comment. M

Electric cars are better, not worse at almost every metric. If you’re moving the goal posts to subjective opinion on aesthetics, then ok, I have no comment. Model Y is the most popular vehicle ever made in any category electric or not.

JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
> > Electric cars are better, not worse at almost every metric. Price, weight, center of gravity, cornering ability and time to "refuel" are much worse. Also given that price of an EV is already high as it is, manufacturers compromise on quality of interior materials and assembly and you can see it The metric that matter are way inferior. > > Model Y is the most popular vehicle ever made in any category electric or not. Last time I checked the Toyota Corolla sold 50M units, VW Golf sold like 35M units, a couple of Toyota models stand at 15M and 10M respectively. Not to mention the Ford Model T. How many Tesla Model Y got sold some 1.5M? You should check numbers instead of blindly believing the propaganda. Tesla will never sell that much cars in the history of the company, not just one model. Not to mention how it's much harder to sell 1M Ford Model T in 1915 than even 10M Teslas in 2023 (not that they will ever sell 10M cars per year) It's a 150 year old industry, only people who believe propaganda buy into the lie that it's being revolutionized in any way , shape or form.
- onethought 3y ago
  What is worse about the weight? Are you trying to lift your vehicles? There are trade offs to weight, but I’m not sure it’s worse. Price is worse if you ignore total cost of ownership… otherwise price is generally better. (Ie model 3 is cheaper than Corolla) I think you need to drive a Tesla they corner extremely well. Time to refuel… but you plug it in at night so you don’t need to refuel, I’d call this a trade off not better or worse. Centre of gravity is basically perfect. What are you referring to as negative here? Model Y sells more units per quarter than any other vehicle ever. Is that not the definition of popular? Obviously vehicles that have been around longer have sold more volume. The ex CEO of vw said himself Tesla has revolutionised ev manufacture in a way they struggled to match. Referring to their 45 second model Y production rate.
  - JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
    > > There are trade offs to weight More weight, they feel like boats in corners, there is a reason why cornering on a motorbike feels better than cornering in a car, and cornering in a light car always feels better than a heavy car. On a heavy EV you can't drift , you can't slide the back, no mechanical feedback, no sound eww. > > Price is worse if you ignore total cost of ownership… otherwise price is generally better. (Ie model 3 is cheaper than Corolla) There are Toyotas out there with 1M miles on the same engine whereas Tesla need total overhaul after 100k miles, not to mention diesel trucks, there are diesel trucks out there with 5M miles on the same engine. > > Time to refuel… but you plug it in at night so you don’t need to refuel, I’d call this a trade off not better or worse. When I buy a car I want to be able to use it 24/7/365, it is way worse to need 7 hours to recharge as opposed to a 30 seconds splash and go. > > Model Y sells more units per quarter than any other vehicle ever And you extrapolate this quarterly data thinking it will reach the same level of sales of VW Golfs and Corollas, that's the mistake. VW and Corolla at cumulatively 200M units sold they moved (and still move the world) , Teslas move a bunch of rich guys who want to virtue signal, there is a limited number of them.
    - onethought 3y ago
      Okay. I ride bikes and EVs. Cornering on a bike (ie two wheels) is way slower and harder than what an EV feels like. I don’t believe you are speaking from experience at all. Else you would know this. Honestly the whole line of thinking on petrol is better is just change resistance rather than rationality. Most people drive 60 miles a day. Cars stay parked more than they are driven. Electricity is ubiquitous. EVs, particularly teslas solve this: home charging for casual use, super chargers for road trips. Cornering in an EV with regen and instant torque is not comparable to any other type of vehicle and is vastly superior (even with the extra weight). Having driven a lotus (considered extremely light) and model 3 on the same stretch of road. The model 3 is superior in almost every way. (There is something still fun about rumbling engines and gears that EVs miss). I think when you look at total cost of ownership you need to look at average length of ownership. Most people do not keep their car for 1M miles. For a Tesla, not really “overhaul” generally it is often a motor and/or battery replacement. It does kind of look like an overhaul given the simplicity of the drive train. But it’s two parts. On the contrary: Tesla, or EVs in general are Better and safer. They are outselling every other vehicle because of that. Not because there are suddenly more rich people or virtue signallers in the world.

JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago

> > Electric cars are better, not worse at almost every metric. Price, weight, center of gravity, cornering ability and time to "refuel" are much worse. Also given that price of an EV is already high as it is, manufacturers compromise on quality of interior materials and assembly and you can see it The metric that matter are way inferior. > > Model Y is the most popular vehicle ever made in any category electric or not. Last time I checked the Toyota Corolla sold 50M units, VW Golf sold like 35M units, a couple of Toyota models stand at 15M and 10M respectively. Not to mention the Ford Model T. How many Tesla Model Y got sold some 1.5M? You should check numbers instead of blindly believing the propaganda. Tesla will never sell that much cars in the history of the company, not just one model. Not to mention how it's much harder to sell 1M Ford Model T in 1915 than even 10M Teslas in 2023 (not that they will ever sell 10M cars per year) It's a 150 year old industry, only people who believe propaganda buy into the lie that it's being revolutionized in any way , shape or form.

onethought 3y ago
What is worse about the weight? Are you trying to lift your vehicles? There are trade offs to weight, but I’m not sure it’s worse. Price is worse if you ignore total cost of ownership… otherwise price is generally better. (Ie model 3 is cheaper than Corolla) I think you need to drive a Tesla they corner extremely well. Time to refuel… but you plug it in at night so you don’t need to refuel, I’d call this a trade off not better or worse. Centre of gravity is basically perfect. What are you referring to as negative here? Model Y sells more units per quarter than any other vehicle ever. Is that not the definition of popular? Obviously vehicles that have been around longer have sold more volume. The ex CEO of vw said himself Tesla has revolutionised ev manufacture in a way they struggled to match. Referring to their 45 second model Y production rate.
- JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
  > > There are trade offs to weight More weight, they feel like boats in corners, there is a reason why cornering on a motorbike feels better than cornering in a car, and cornering in a light car always feels better than a heavy car. On a heavy EV you can't drift , you can't slide the back, no mechanical feedback, no sound eww. > > Price is worse if you ignore total cost of ownership… otherwise price is generally better. (Ie model 3 is cheaper than Corolla) There are Toyotas out there with 1M miles on the same engine whereas Tesla need total overhaul after 100k miles, not to mention diesel trucks, there are diesel trucks out there with 5M miles on the same engine. > > Time to refuel… but you plug it in at night so you don’t need to refuel, I’d call this a trade off not better or worse. When I buy a car I want to be able to use it 24/7/365, it is way worse to need 7 hours to recharge as opposed to a 30 seconds splash and go. > > Model Y sells more units per quarter than any other vehicle ever And you extrapolate this quarterly data thinking it will reach the same level of sales of VW Golfs and Corollas, that's the mistake. VW and Corolla at cumulatively 200M units sold they moved (and still move the world) , Teslas move a bunch of rich guys who want to virtue signal, there is a limited number of them.
  - onethought 3y ago
    Okay. I ride bikes and EVs. Cornering on a bike (ie two wheels) is way slower and harder than what an EV feels like. I don’t believe you are speaking from experience at all. Else you would know this. Honestly the whole line of thinking on petrol is better is just change resistance rather than rationality. Most people drive 60 miles a day. Cars stay parked more than they are driven. Electricity is ubiquitous. EVs, particularly teslas solve this: home charging for casual use, super chargers for road trips. Cornering in an EV with regen and instant torque is not comparable to any other type of vehicle and is vastly superior (even with the extra weight). Having driven a lotus (considered extremely light) and model 3 on the same stretch of road. The model 3 is superior in almost every way. (There is something still fun about rumbling engines and gears that EVs miss). I think when you look at total cost of ownership you need to look at average length of ownership. Most people do not keep their car for 1M miles. For a Tesla, not really “overhaul” generally it is often a motor and/or battery replacement. It does kind of look like an overhaul given the simplicity of the drive train. But it’s two parts. On the contrary: Tesla, or EVs in general are Better and safer. They are outselling every other vehicle because of that. Not because there are suddenly more rich people or virtue signallers in the world.