3 ms·

NACS is fundamentally incompatible for 3-phase power. You need a live, a neutral, a ground, and two extra wires for each extra phase. I’ll take my chunky conne

by jorvi 3y ago

NACS is fundamentally incompatible for 3-phase power. You need a live, a neutral, a ground, and two extra wires for each extra phase. I’ll take my chunky connector with 22kW over your sleek one with 7kW :)

ttfkam 3y ago
> You need... I submit a counterexample of the huge network of Tesla superchargers that can do the job quite well with the NACS connector. maximum power output of 600 kW and a maximum current of 615A at 1,000V https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1269/tesla-v4-superchargers-power-design-and-cable-length-revealed https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1269/tesla-v4-supercharger... The practical limits are based on the cars and their batteries, not the charge port.
- jorvi 3y ago
  Supercharging, yeah. But you (or rather "everyone") won't constantly be supercharging. You'll mostly do it at home or at your office. 7kW :)
  - ttfkam 3y ago
    Places where you don't need a fast charge? Overnight at home. From arrival to lunch at work. After lunch to quitting time. And even those times assume you drive more than 50 miles/day, which most folks don't. What was the problem again?
    - arghwhat 3y ago
      While not the norm, 100km each way is not an unusual commute (I did that for years). With winter driving, long days out and long commutes, I suppose you could get to a point where 7kW AC slow-charging does not cut it, and having room for cheap upgrades don't hurt. You want to charge as slow as possible for your need, but needs do vary.
    - ffgjgf1 3y ago
      Why would you consciously pick 7kW over 20+ just because of a sleeker connector? > What was the problem again Why would I want to wait for more than I have to? e.g. I forgot to charge during the night and need to go on a trip in a few hours. Now I need to find a fasts charger and pay for it instead of charging at home, why exactly?
- apexalpha 3y ago
  >The practical limits are based on the cars and their batteries, not the charge port. You're referring to DC fast charging. For AC charging the NACS is limited to single phase. This is a charge port thing, not the car or battery. Which doesn't matter much in the US, but it does in Europe.
pitaj 3y ago
So what? For high-power charging, DC is better anyways. For low-power charging, having extra phases is useless.
- Acinyx 3y ago
  In europe the connections are a lot lower amperage, around here for example 35 ampere per phase. But having 3 phases is pretty normal and the standard in any new house, which means 3 phases can let you charge at 22kW with a few Ampere left, while with 1 phase you can only charge at 7 KW. That does make it useful to charge it in a few hours in the afternoon, instead of having to wiat the night.
  - mendigou 3y ago
    In which European country is triphasic power for houses becoming normal?
    - ffgjgf1 3y ago
      Where I am (Eastern Europe) the cost difference is insignificant. There is no reason to not get triphasic for new detached/semi-detached houses.
    - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
      apartment blocks always do
    - arghwhat 3y ago
      In Denmark, the only places without triphase power are some very old apartments in inner Copenhagen. To be fair, some of those apartments predate US independence by a hundred years. Those buildings do have triphasic power, but had a silly scheme where each apartment got two random phases. All houses have triphasic power (usually 35A per phase, sometimes 63A), and all apartment buildings with electrics from the last 2-3 decades provide triphasic power to each apartment as well. Our ovens and cooktops expect triphasic power, with a two-phase downgraded configuration for backup. Same for Sweden I believe.
93po 3y ago
Super chargers can charge a Tesla up to 250kw
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  The cost of getting one is what? I have a 22kW CCS charger at home and it is seems perfectly fine.
  - 93po 3y ago
    My point being the connector, which is the topic here, is the exact same form factor while still delivering 10x what that chunky one does in the poster's situation. The choice isn't "small tesla form factor and slow" versus "chunky and a tiny bit faster" The cost of the supercharger isn't really relevant either, most US homes are gonna max out at 200 amp service which is a max of 48kw, but realistically probably half that due to your house needing electricity and a single custom circuit unlikely to be over 100 amps.

by jorvi 3y ago

ttfkam 3y ago

> You need... I submit a counterexample of the huge network of Tesla superchargers that can do the job quite well with the NACS connector. maximum power output of 600 kW and a maximum current of 615A at 1,000V https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1269/tesla-v4-superchargers-power-design-and-cable-length-revealed https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1269/tesla-v4-supercharger... The practical limits are based on the cars and their batteries, not the charge port.

jorvi 3y ago
Supercharging, yeah. But you (or rather "everyone") won't constantly be supercharging. You'll mostly do it at home or at your office. 7kW :)
- ttfkam 3y ago
  Places where you don't need a fast charge? Overnight at home. From arrival to lunch at work. After lunch to quitting time. And even those times assume you drive more than 50 miles/day, which most folks don't. What was the problem again?
  - arghwhat 3y ago
    While not the norm, 100km each way is not an unusual commute (I did that for years). With winter driving, long days out and long commutes, I suppose you could get to a point where 7kW AC slow-charging does not cut it, and having room for cheap upgrades don't hurt. You want to charge as slow as possible for your need, but needs do vary.
  - ffgjgf1 3y ago
    Why would you consciously pick 7kW over 20+ just because of a sleeker connector? > What was the problem again Why would I want to wait for more than I have to? e.g. I forgot to charge during the night and need to go on a trip in a few hours. Now I need to find a fasts charger and pay for it instead of charging at home, why exactly?
apexalpha 3y ago
>The practical limits are based on the cars and their batteries, not the charge port. You're referring to DC fast charging. For AC charging the NACS is limited to single phase. This is a charge port thing, not the car or battery. Which doesn't matter much in the US, but it does in Europe.

pitaj 3y ago

So what? For high-power charging, DC is better anyways. For low-power charging, having extra phases is useless.

Acinyx 3y ago
In europe the connections are a lot lower amperage, around here for example 35 ampere per phase. But having 3 phases is pretty normal and the standard in any new house, which means 3 phases can let you charge at 22kW with a few Ampere left, while with 1 phase you can only charge at 7 KW. That does make it useful to charge it in a few hours in the afternoon, instead of having to wiat the night.
- mendigou 3y ago
  In which European country is triphasic power for houses becoming normal?
  - ffgjgf1 3y ago
    Where I am (Eastern Europe) the cost difference is insignificant. There is no reason to not get triphasic for new detached/semi-detached houses.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    apartment blocks always do
  - arghwhat 3y ago
    In Denmark, the only places without triphase power are some very old apartments in inner Copenhagen. To be fair, some of those apartments predate US independence by a hundred years. Those buildings do have triphasic power, but had a silly scheme where each apartment got two random phases. All houses have triphasic power (usually 35A per phase, sometimes 63A), and all apartment buildings with electrics from the last 2-3 decades provide triphasic power to each apartment as well. Our ovens and cooktops expect triphasic power, with a two-phase downgraded configuration for backup. Same for Sweden I believe.

93po 3y ago

Super chargers can charge a Tesla up to 250kw

ffgjgf1 3y ago
The cost of getting one is what? I have a 22kW CCS charger at home and it is seems perfectly fine.
- 93po 3y ago
  My point being the connector, which is the topic here, is the exact same form factor while still delivering 10x what that chunky one does in the poster's situation. The choice isn't "small tesla form factor and slow" versus "chunky and a tiny bit faster" The cost of the supercharger isn't really relevant either, most US homes are gonna max out at 200 amp service which is a max of 48kw, but realistically probably half that due to your house needing electricity and a single custom circuit unlikely to be over 100 amps.