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For apartments I think it makes a lot of sense. Having to do a couple transactions every road trip is one thing, but having to complete a transaction just to to

For apartments I think it makes a lot of sense. Having to do a couple transactions every road trip is one thing, but having to complete a transaction just to top off every night the way a homeowner would sounds really annoying.

_ea1k 3y ago
The flip side to that is that you'd only have to setup the app once at your home. If the charging activation is as smooth as chargepoint, it wouldn't be bad at all.
spaceywilly 3y ago
It would be easy to support both options. Many gas stations have their own app payment system.
HenryBemis 3y ago
I am thinking of buildings where they got 100+ parking spots, and one can install a charging station for his/her/their car. THAT station needs some 'lock' (software or hardware). Otherwise what stops someone else to abuse my parking spot's 'e-pump', when I drive to work and the spot will be unoccupied for the next 10h? So some hoop-jumping should also be required.
namdnay 3y ago
For apartments it would make more sense to have it read the same key fob you use to open the gates or whatever. Then just add it on your monthly building bill
- akouri 3y ago
  Not a bad idea. We are looking into this. One issue is that the vendors for these keyfobs are super fragmented -- even more so than Plug & Charge adoption.
  - g_p 3y ago
    Worth being aware that, as well as keyfobs being super fragmented, many are woefully insecure. Think "they just say their ID number when you put them in a reader field". That means you can trivially clone them. Not hugely exciting for access to a (common) hallway in a large building. If cloning someone else's fob gets you free car charging, the incentive is there to clone them. Also, not all buildings will use unique fobs per "unit" (and you'd likely need to support per-resident/tenant fob uniqueness... And something for guests!) -- sometimes it's a single hardcoded value for the whole block or door zone that the fob opens... You can, of course, build something proper using NFC (and a smartcard running a smartcard applet), which is effectively like your own custom mini "chip and PIN" EMV system -- you would have to design and implement the wire protocol to authenticate the card etc etc, and all the security design around that, but it could be done. That would at least let you have something more than simply shouting your tag ID number into the air like a super basic NFC tag (or RFID keyfob).
    - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
      > That means you can trivially clone them. i have cloned keyfobs for like 5 building at a local laundry. Never met a fob they couldn't clone
      - g_p 3y ago
        Yeah - there's even some fairly capable "cloners" available on eBay for most of the common formats. I guess that the ongoing use of (derived from magnetic stripe) Wiegand interfaces mean that most can be cloned like this. There are absolutely some unclonable (without massive expenditure on defeating CC EAL 5+ smartcards) access control systems, but those are never the cheapest, so they don't get adopted outside of (very) high security environments. I wondered if we'd see a shift once the Flipper Zero hit the ground, but it's probably still a bit too early on that. A lot of hotels used to use insecure (and pretty easily cloned with an Android app) Mifare Ultralight NFC on room keys, but I've not seen one of those recently - most seem to be Mifare classic now, which is secure if your keys aren't compromised.
  - 3y ago

_ea1k 3y ago

The flip side to that is that you'd only have to setup the app once at your home. If the charging activation is as smooth as chargepoint, it wouldn't be bad at all.

spaceywilly 3y ago

It would be easy to support both options. Many gas stations have their own app payment system.

HenryBemis 3y ago

I am thinking of buildings where they got 100+ parking spots, and one can install a charging station for his/her/their car. THAT station needs some 'lock' (software or hardware). Otherwise what stops someone else to abuse my parking spot's 'e-pump', when I drive to work and the spot will be unoccupied for the next 10h? So some hoop-jumping should also be required.

namdnay 3y ago

For apartments it would make more sense to have it read the same key fob you use to open the gates or whatever. Then just add it on your monthly building bill

akouri 3y ago
Not a bad idea. We are looking into this. One issue is that the vendors for these keyfobs are super fragmented -- even more so than Plug & Charge adoption.
- g_p 3y ago
  Worth being aware that, as well as keyfobs being super fragmented, many are woefully insecure. Think "they just say their ID number when you put them in a reader field". That means you can trivially clone them. Not hugely exciting for access to a (common) hallway in a large building. If cloning someone else's fob gets you free car charging, the incentive is there to clone them. Also, not all buildings will use unique fobs per "unit" (and you'd likely need to support per-resident/tenant fob uniqueness... And something for guests!) -- sometimes it's a single hardcoded value for the whole block or door zone that the fob opens... You can, of course, build something proper using NFC (and a smartcard running a smartcard applet), which is effectively like your own custom mini "chip and PIN" EMV system -- you would have to design and implement the wire protocol to authenticate the card etc etc, and all the security design around that, but it could be done. That would at least let you have something more than simply shouting your tag ID number into the air like a super basic NFC tag (or RFID keyfob).
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > That means you can trivially clone them. i have cloned keyfobs for like 5 building at a local laundry. Never met a fob they couldn't clone
    - g_p 3y ago
      Yeah - there's even some fairly capable "cloners" available on eBay for most of the common formats. I guess that the ongoing use of (derived from magnetic stripe) Wiegand interfaces mean that most can be cloned like this. There are absolutely some unclonable (without massive expenditure on defeating CC EAL 5+ smartcards) access control systems, but those are never the cheapest, so they don't get adopted outside of (very) high security environments. I wondered if we'd see a shift once the Flipper Zero hit the ground, but it's probably still a bit too early on that. A lot of hotels used to use insecure (and pretty easily cloned with an Android app) Mifare Ultralight NFC on room keys, but I've not seen one of those recently - most seem to be Mifare classic now, which is secure if your keys aren't compromised.
- 3y ago