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It's not clear to me but it sounds like it wasn't an upgrade from 3G but from wifi, and wifi was only accessible at the stations? The Stockholm subway has had

It's not clear to me but it sounds like it wasn't an upgrade from 3G but from wifi, and wifi was only accessible at the stations? The Stockholm subway has had 4G since 2015, but that was replacing the 2G/3G networks. It would be interesting to know how it works. Are there a lot of smaller base stations? Is there a station on each train that bridges traffic using some other technology that works better underground? https://computersweden-idg-se.translate.goog/2.2683/1.611884/mobiloperatorernas-nya-sl-avtal-oppnar-for-supersurf-i-tunnelbanan?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=sv&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://computersweden-idg-se.translate.goog/2.2683/1.611884...

mattlondon 3y ago
Yeah there was no cellular service, and the WiFi was limited to certain providers. They've been talking about this for decades as far as I can remember. They always resisted it because they were worried someone would use it to set off a bomb (London has quite a lot of terrorism in it's semi-recent history). I guess now they realised that suicide bombers are probably more likely than a Nokia 3310 rigged up to a detonator.
- lxgr 3y ago
  Oh, that explains why the Wi-Fi was weirdly not available to international tourists/required registration with mobile networks. I've been wondering about that every time I've been to London.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    It's nothing to do with bombs, that's just a conspiracy theory. There's some explanation here — power, space, time and cost were all issues: https://www.londonreconnections.com/2023/deep-inside-bringing-mobile-phone-coverage-to-the-underground-theengineer/ https://www.londonreconnections.com/2023/deep-inside-bringin... The wifi is available if you have a British SIM from a major network, there are also locals who can't use it.
  - Angostura 3y ago
    > Oh, that explains why the Wi-Fi was weirdly not available to international tourists/required registration with mobile networks. Not really. The wifi was funded by the cellular/broadband networks as a value-add for their customers. So I was a broadband Virgin customer and could use Virgin Wifi on the Tube
- andrelaszlo 3y ago
  I imagine there must be countless other ways to accomplish this. Seems like CYA?
Symbiote 3y ago
London Underground tunnels are very small, so there's not much space for anything to be added. Many are lined with iron. Phone service was discussed many times in the past, but the phone companies didn't seem willing to pay what it would cost to install it. (It's nothing to do with bombs.)
- ksec 3y ago
  But this is Elizabeth Line. The newest additional line in London Rails opened in 2022. I expected 4G and 5g coverage from the get go. Not one and half year later. It would have been much much more impressive if it was the Central line.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    Sorry, I'm mixed up with other discussion on this post, and the article which also discusses other lines. I'd assume the project to install 4G/5G on the Elizabeth line just overran, or would have delayed opening the railway. The wording in [1] isn't completely clear, but suggests this was supposed to happen in 2022. [1] https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-tube-underground-4g-three-ee-crossrail-b973082.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-tube-undergrou...
bosse 3y ago
One option for getting coverage in metro tunnels may involve deploying several Base Tranciever Stations (BTS), usually in technical rooms connected to stations. These BTSes can be from different operators. Then they are connected hub and spoke with fiber to radiation cables that stretch through the tunnel up to around 2000-ish feet, perhaps even longer nowadays. The BTSs connect to the mobile operators through their Radio Access Network.

mattlondon 3y ago

Yeah there was no cellular service, and the WiFi was limited to certain providers. They've been talking about this for decades as far as I can remember. They always resisted it because they were worried someone would use it to set off a bomb (London has quite a lot of terrorism in it's semi-recent history). I guess now they realised that suicide bombers are probably more likely than a Nokia 3310 rigged up to a detonator.

lxgr 3y ago
Oh, that explains why the Wi-Fi was weirdly not available to international tourists/required registration with mobile networks. I've been wondering about that every time I've been to London.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  It's nothing to do with bombs, that's just a conspiracy theory. There's some explanation here — power, space, time and cost were all issues: https://www.londonreconnections.com/2023/deep-inside-bringing-mobile-phone-coverage-to-the-underground-theengineer/ https://www.londonreconnections.com/2023/deep-inside-bringin... The wifi is available if you have a British SIM from a major network, there are also locals who can't use it.
- Angostura 3y ago
  > Oh, that explains why the Wi-Fi was weirdly not available to international tourists/required registration with mobile networks. Not really. The wifi was funded by the cellular/broadband networks as a value-add for their customers. So I was a broadband Virgin customer and could use Virgin Wifi on the Tube
andrelaszlo 3y ago
I imagine there must be countless other ways to accomplish this. Seems like CYA?

Symbiote 3y ago

London Underground tunnels are very small, so there's not much space for anything to be added. Many are lined with iron. Phone service was discussed many times in the past, but the phone companies didn't seem willing to pay what it would cost to install it. (It's nothing to do with bombs.)

ksec 3y ago
But this is Elizabeth Line. The newest additional line in London Rails opened in 2022. I expected 4G and 5g coverage from the get go. Not one and half year later. It would have been much much more impressive if it was the Central line.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Sorry, I'm mixed up with other discussion on this post, and the article which also discusses other lines. I'd assume the project to install 4G/5G on the Elizabeth line just overran, or would have delayed opening the railway. The wording in [1] isn't completely clear, but suggests this was supposed to happen in 2022. [1] https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-tube-underground-4g-three-ee-crossrail-b973082.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-tube-undergrou...

bosse 3y ago

One option for getting coverage in metro tunnels may involve deploying several Base Tranciever Stations (BTS), usually in technical rooms connected to stations. These BTSes can be from different operators. Then they are connected hub and spoke with fiber to radiation cables that stretch through the tunnel up to around 2000-ish feet, perhaps even longer nowadays. The BTSs connect to the mobile operators through their Radio Access Network.