4 ms·

Cable weight corresponds to charging power rating and choice of materials, not plug choice. A combined CCS2 plug is chunkier and might be a bit heavier, but no

Cable weight corresponds to charging power rating and choice of materials, not plug choice. A combined CCS2 plug is chunkier and might be a bit heavier, but not compared to, say, using a fuel pump.

phkahler 3y ago
Just go try them both. CCS2 Has separate AC and DC conductors, and the plug is huge owing to having 2 pair of charging pins and backward compatibility. They are more awkward and heavier than a fuel pump, and significantly heavier than the Tesla plugs. It's terrible.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > They are more awkward and heavier than a fuel pump Really? I don't doubt that Tesla's plugs are smaller and lighter, but it always seemed a bit caricature-ist about people saying how horrible the CCS plugs are and that they weigh like a million pounds or something. They certainly never seemed heavier or harder to manipulate to me compared to a gas pump, so I just never understood this complaint.
  - parineum 3y ago
    I do think they are worse than fuel pumps in those aspects but the real issue is that, when you pull up to a gas pump, you usually pull your car right up to the pump and it's just a foot or two away from where the pump is. Parking lot style EV chargers mean that I'm frequently pulling the charging cable across the front of my car and trying to plug the cable in straight while the tension on the cable is pulling it sideways. It frequently means it's a two hand job, one on the cable to keep in straight and the other guiding the plug in to the port.
  - BluePen7 3y ago
    Where did you charge? I recently tried the ones at Esso in Canada, it literally feels like 4x the weight. I've never needed 2 handles to manipulate a gas pump or Tesla charger, but with the CCS I had to use both hands and my body weight to sorta force it around. It was wild.
- jorvi 3y ago
  NACS is fundamentally incompatible for 3-phase power. You need a live, a neutral, a ground, and two extra wires for each extra phase. I’ll take my chunky connector with 22kW over your sleek one with 7kW :)
  - ttfkam 3y ago
    > You need... I submit a counterexample of the huge network of Tesla superchargers that can do the job quite well with the NACS connector. maximum power output of 600 kW and a maximum current of 615A at 1,000V https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1269/tesla-v4-superchargers-power-design-and-cable-length-revealed https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1269/tesla-v4-supercharger... The practical limits are based on the cars and their batteries, not the charge port.
    - jorvi 3y ago
      Supercharging, yeah. But you (or rather "everyone") won't constantly be supercharging. You'll mostly do it at home or at your office. 7kW :)
      - ttfkam 3y ago
        Places where you don't need a fast charge? Overnight at home. From arrival to lunch at work. After lunch to quitting time. And even those times assume you drive more than 50 miles/day, which most folks don't. What was the problem again?
        arghwhat 3y ago
        While not the norm, 100km each way is not an unusual commute (I did that for years). With winter driving, long days out and long commutes, I suppose you could get to a point where 7kW AC slow-charging does not cut it, and having room for cheap upgrades don't hurt. You want to charge as slow as possible for your need, but needs do vary.
        ffgjgf1 3y ago
        Why would you consciously pick 7kW over 20+ just because of a sleeker connector? > What was the problem again Why would I want to wait for more than I have to? e.g. I forgot to charge during the night and need to go on a trip in a few hours. Now I need to find a fasts charger and pay for it instead of charging at home, why exactly?
- myself248 3y ago
  CCS1 has separate AC and DC pins in the connector, but no cable has conductors for both. I've looked, since I was trying to make a passthrough testing device! Is CCS2 different? If you get the DC cable, you have conductors on the pilot pins and the DC pins, and the AC pin positions are just empty. If you get the AC cable, you have conductors on the pilot pins and the AC pins, and the DC part of the connector isn't there at all.
- archi42 3y ago
  Nope. No separate AC and DC conductors for CCS2. From wikipedia [1], the DC cable has: PE, CP & PP (comms), fat DC+ and fat DC-. That's it. In the AC portion of CCS2 there are connectors for Neutral and up to three lines (for three phase charging), but these are not present for a DC cable. I have to admit I haven't used Tesla plugs, but there is already a slight difference between the cable from a 50kW charger and a 350kW charger. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System
pests 3y ago
How? Once you add thermal management and active cooling to be cable.weigjr is no longer coupled to power delivery.
BluePen7 3y ago
I actually got a CCS adapter and did exactly that with my Tesla this week. Esso in Canada has free DC charging for a while through their Journie app. It is like manhandling a pressurized firehose, and I'm a 30 year old male who works out. I had to actually put my phone away and use both hands to force it around, I'm accustomed to the Tesla connector I easily one-hand. And despite how big and thick it was, it was still so weirdly heavy I had to double check it wasn't somehow secured to the ground as well. There is a 0% chance either of my elderly parents would be able to get that plugged in.

Cable weight corresponds to charging power rating and choice of materials, not plug choice. A combined CCS2 plug is chunkier and might be a bit heavier, but not compared to, say, using a fuel pump.

phkahler 3y ago

Just go try them both. CCS2 Has separate AC and DC conductors, and the plug is huge owing to having 2 pair of charging pins and backward compatibility. They are more awkward and heavier than a fuel pump, and significantly heavier than the Tesla plugs. It's terrible.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> They are more awkward and heavier than a fuel pump Really? I don't doubt that Tesla's plugs are smaller and lighter, but it always seemed a bit caricature-ist about people saying how horrible the CCS plugs are and that they weigh like a million pounds or something. They certainly never seemed heavier or harder to manipulate to me compared to a gas pump, so I just never understood this complaint.
- parineum 3y ago
  I do think they are worse than fuel pumps in those aspects but the real issue is that, when you pull up to a gas pump, you usually pull your car right up to the pump and it's just a foot or two away from where the pump is. Parking lot style EV chargers mean that I'm frequently pulling the charging cable across the front of my car and trying to plug the cable in straight while the tension on the cable is pulling it sideways. It frequently means it's a two hand job, one on the cable to keep in straight and the other guiding the plug in to the port.
- BluePen7 3y ago
  Where did you charge? I recently tried the ones at Esso in Canada, it literally feels like 4x the weight. I've never needed 2 handles to manipulate a gas pump or Tesla charger, but with the CCS I had to use both hands and my body weight to sorta force it around. It was wild.
jorvi 3y ago
NACS is fundamentally incompatible for 3-phase power. You need a live, a neutral, a ground, and two extra wires for each extra phase. I’ll take my chunky connector with 22kW over your sleek one with 7kW :)
- ttfkam 3y ago
  > You need... I submit a counterexample of the huge network of Tesla superchargers that can do the job quite well with the NACS connector. maximum power output of 600 kW and a maximum current of 615A at 1,000V https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1269/tesla-v4-superchargers-power-design-and-cable-length-revealed https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1269/tesla-v4-supercharger... The practical limits are based on the cars and their batteries, not the charge port.
  - jorvi 3y ago
    Supercharging, yeah. But you (or rather "everyone") won't constantly be supercharging. You'll mostly do it at home or at your office. 7kW :)
    - ttfkam 3y ago
      Places where you don't need a fast charge? Overnight at home. From arrival to lunch at work. After lunch to quitting time. And even those times assume you drive more than 50 miles/day, which most folks don't. What was the problem again?
      - arghwhat 3y ago
        While not the norm, 100km each way is not an unusual commute (I did that for years). With winter driving, long days out and long commutes, I suppose you could get to a point where 7kW AC slow-charging does not cut it, and having room for cheap upgrades don't hurt. You want to charge as slow as possible for your need, but needs do vary.
      - ffgjgf1 3y ago
        Why would you consciously pick 7kW over 20+ just because of a sleeker connector? > What was the problem again Why would I want to wait for more than I have to? e.g. I forgot to charge during the night and need to go on a trip in a few hours. Now I need to find a fasts charger and pay for it instead of charging at home, why exactly?
myself248 3y ago
CCS1 has separate AC and DC pins in the connector, but no cable has conductors for both. I've looked, since I was trying to make a passthrough testing device! Is CCS2 different? If you get the DC cable, you have conductors on the pilot pins and the DC pins, and the AC pin positions are just empty. If you get the AC cable, you have conductors on the pilot pins and the AC pins, and the DC part of the connector isn't there at all.
archi42 3y ago
Nope. No separate AC and DC conductors for CCS2. From wikipedia [1], the DC cable has: PE, CP & PP (comms), fat DC+ and fat DC-. That's it. In the AC portion of CCS2 there are connectors for Neutral and up to three lines (for three phase charging), but these are not present for a DC cable. I have to admit I haven't used Tesla plugs, but there is already a slight difference between the cable from a 50kW charger and a 350kW charger. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System

pests 3y ago

How? Once you add thermal management and active cooling to be cable.weigjr is no longer coupled to power delivery.

BluePen7 3y ago

I actually got a CCS adapter and did exactly that with my Tesla this week. Esso in Canada has free DC charging for a while through their Journie app. It is like manhandling a pressurized firehose, and I'm a 30 year old male who works out. I had to actually put my phone away and use both hands to force it around, I'm accustomed to the Tesla connector I easily one-hand. And despite how big and thick it was, it was still so weirdly heavy I had to double check it wasn't somehow secured to the ground as well. There is a 0% chance either of my elderly parents would be able to get that plugged in.