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"if we are not set up for base soon, we will have to declare fuel emergency and that would really ** up your sequence" - pilot That is 100% out of line. But th

by jquery 3y ago

"if we are not set up for base soon, we will have to declare fuel emergency and that would really ** up your sequence" - pilot That is 100% out of line. But the ATC handled it super professionally and offered them vectors to their alternate. The article suggests that ATC should've let the pilots declare a fuel emergency instead?

filleduchaos 3y ago
I...don't see how that is "100% out of line". Again I am very confused by the sentiment here - unless you are ignoring how much time the Lufthansa bird actually spent on hold (34 minutes before the statement you're quoting) and/or the regulations on (as well as the physical reality of) fuel consumption, jumping to the conclusion that the Lufthansa pilot is bluffing is very strange. On top of that, the idea that the controller has carte blanche to "call [his] bluff" is patently absurd. So is the framing of diverting them to their alternate airport as "calling a bluff", when diverting to Oakland is exactly what the controller should have done from the beginning instead of giving them an ultimately wrong estimate and forgetting they were there. Then again this is a board targeting the software dev industry, so I don't know why I'm surprised.
- jquery 3y ago
  It was a bluff because either you're in a fuel emergency, or you aren't. He was trying to scare the ATC worker hoping they'd panic and slot him in to "avoid" the emergency. But that's not how any of it works. That's why it was a bluff. The ATC being 4 minutes "late" for a callback during the busiest landing time does not mean the plane was "forgotten". 34 minutes is not very long to spend on hold, planes carry hours worth of reserve fuel. And estimates are just estimates, not a promise (like the article framed it as). Honestly this is akin to someone showing up to the most popular restaurant in New York 2 hours late for their reservation, asking for a VIP room, then getting huffy when they don't have a VIP room within 30 minutes and then being angry they were offered a seat at the restaurant next door. (apparently the pilot, on the PA to passengers, was talking about taking legal action against ATC on the way to Oakland... ridiculous...)

by jquery 3y ago

filleduchaos 3y ago

I...don't see how that is "100% out of line". Again I am very confused by the sentiment here - unless you are ignoring how much time the Lufthansa bird actually spent on hold (34 minutes before the statement you're quoting) and/or the regulations on (as well as the physical reality of) fuel consumption, jumping to the conclusion that the Lufthansa pilot is bluffing is very strange. On top of that, the idea that the controller has carte blanche to "call [his] bluff" is patently absurd. So is the framing of diverting them to their alternate airport as "calling a bluff", when diverting to Oakland is exactly what the controller should have done from the beginning instead of giving them an ultimately wrong estimate and forgetting they were there. Then again this is a board targeting the software dev industry, so I don't know why I'm surprised.

jquery 3y ago
It was a bluff because either you're in a fuel emergency, or you aren't. He was trying to scare the ATC worker hoping they'd panic and slot him in to "avoid" the emergency. But that's not how any of it works. That's why it was a bluff. The ATC being 4 minutes "late" for a callback during the busiest landing time does not mean the plane was "forgotten". 34 minutes is not very long to spend on hold, planes carry hours worth of reserve fuel. And estimates are just estimates, not a promise (like the article framed it as). Honestly this is akin to someone showing up to the most popular restaurant in New York 2 hours late for their reservation, asking for a VIP room, then getting huffy when they don't have a VIP room within 30 minutes and then being angry they were offered a seat at the restaurant next door. (apparently the pilot, on the PA to passengers, was talking about taking legal action against ATC on the way to Oakland... ridiculous...)