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Not sure how much margin that Tesla will be making on the charging. I don't think the financial details of these deals have been disclosed. Adding lots of reven

by sib 3y ago

Not sure how much margin that Tesla will be making on the charging. I don't think the financial details of these deals have been disclosed. Adding lots of revenue but with no margin doesn't really add value to Tesla. (Of course, to the extent they get funding from the government or other manufacturers to offset the capex required for building out more stations and chargers, that's great for Tesla & anyone.)

shiftpgdn 3y ago
In states where they are registered as an energy provider? A lot. A 10-80% charge will net Tesla $20. Comparatively a gas station that refills a midsize car with a 20 gallon tank will only net $6.
- conjecTech 3y ago
  And where is that?
- akouri 3y ago
  I think you mean it will _gross_ Tesla $20. From my research, Tesla is (currently) not making much on energy delivered. That _will_ certainly change in the future though.
  - shiftpgdn 3y ago
    Using Texas as an example: 10-80% on a Model S/X is 70kwh. Rate billed to customers will vary from 30-50c/kwh at time of charge. Spot in Texas typically ranges from 5c to 15c/kwh. Assuming charge equipment is fully depreciated all they need to pay is maintenance and network cost, which is marginal across a bank of 20 chargers. 70kwh x 25c = $17.50.
    - sib 3y ago
      Using California as an example, they are charging $0.12 / kWh more for non-Teslas than for Teslas. I don't see any reason to assume that delta would be different in other locations. Since the Tesla-Supercharging business is running at break-even, you're looking at something like $8.40 for a non-Tesla adding 70kwh.
- sib 3y ago
  In Tesla's most recent quarter, their revenue for "Services & Other," which is where Supercharging lives, was $2,166M, while the cost of revenue for Services & Other was $2,037M. So, a gross profit of $129M on revenue of $2,166M or ~6% gross margin. This is in line with their previous statements that they run the Supercharging network at breakeven - although they don't seem to publicly break out SC-specific numbers from the Services & Other totals. There may be outlier locations, but overall Supercharging is not a big profit center for them. Maybe it'll improve with scale.
  - grecy 3y ago
    Sure, that's supercharging Tesla vehicles. They are of course going to charge more for non-Teslas.
- sib 3y ago
  Using California as an example, they are charging $0.12 / kWh more for non-Teslas than for Teslas. I don't see any reason to assume that delta would be different in other locations. Since the Tesla-Supercharging business is running at break-even, you're looking at something like $8.40 for a non-Tesla adding 70kwh. So that's pretty close to your gas vehicle estimate.

by sib 3y ago

shiftpgdn 3y ago

In states where they are registered as an energy provider? A lot. A 10-80% charge will net Tesla $20. Comparatively a gas station that refills a midsize car with a 20 gallon tank will only net $6.

conjecTech 3y ago
And where is that?
akouri 3y ago
I think you mean it will _gross_ Tesla $20. From my research, Tesla is (currently) not making much on energy delivered. That _will_ certainly change in the future though.
- shiftpgdn 3y ago
  Using Texas as an example: 10-80% on a Model S/X is 70kwh. Rate billed to customers will vary from 30-50c/kwh at time of charge. Spot in Texas typically ranges from 5c to 15c/kwh. Assuming charge equipment is fully depreciated all they need to pay is maintenance and network cost, which is marginal across a bank of 20 chargers. 70kwh x 25c = $17.50.
  - sib 3y ago
    Using California as an example, they are charging $0.12 / kWh more for non-Teslas than for Teslas. I don't see any reason to assume that delta would be different in other locations. Since the Tesla-Supercharging business is running at break-even, you're looking at something like $8.40 for a non-Tesla adding 70kwh.
sib 3y ago
In Tesla's most recent quarter, their revenue for "Services & Other," which is where Supercharging lives, was $2,166M, while the cost of revenue for Services & Other was $2,037M. So, a gross profit of $129M on revenue of $2,166M or ~6% gross margin. This is in line with their previous statements that they run the Supercharging network at breakeven - although they don't seem to publicly break out SC-specific numbers from the Services & Other totals. There may be outlier locations, but overall Supercharging is not a big profit center for them. Maybe it'll improve with scale.
- grecy 3y ago
  Sure, that's supercharging Tesla vehicles. They are of course going to charge more for non-Teslas.
sib 3y ago
Using California as an example, they are charging $0.12 / kWh more for non-Teslas than for Teslas. I don't see any reason to assume that delta would be different in other locations. Since the Tesla-Supercharging business is running at break-even, you're looking at something like $8.40 for a non-Tesla adding 70kwh. So that's pretty close to your gas vehicle estimate.