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Nah. The real win here is for the public. The "standard" charging plug and cables weigh a LOT, so much that my elderly mother probably couldn't use one. The "st

Nah. The real win here is for the public. The "standard" charging plug and cables weigh a LOT, so much that my elderly mother probably couldn't use one. The "standard" also mandates the use of PowerLine Communication chips even though the signal is not over the high power conductor. We are all better off just biting the bullet now and changing everything over to the Tesla plug.

aik 3y ago
Agreed. Thank you Tesla for helping bring about a better standard here!
- alephnerd 3y ago
  Better maintained than the horror show that is Electrify America as well
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    I've posted about this before, but the reason EA is such a horror show is due to their history. EA was created basically as government-mandated punishment against Volkswagen for dieselgate. So it's not that surprising that they didn't feel incentivized to deliver a great product. Compare that to the Supercharger network, where providing a great experience is a huge selling point for Teslas. I might despise Musk, and I'm not a fan of Tesla lately, but you do really have to hand it to them: they were prescient and put in all the hard work of building out the best fast charging network, so good for them for reaping the benefits.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      > EA was created basically as government-mandated punishment against Volkswagen I didn't know that. Do you have some documentation about that. Would be fun reading material for the holidays > I might despise Musk, and I'm not a fan of Tesla lately, but you do really have to hand it to them: they were prescient and put in all the hard work of building out the best fast charging network, so good for them for reaping the benefits. Same boat club.
      - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
        The Wikipedia pages for EA and the VW emissions scandal give a good overview with linked sources. As part of the consent decree, VW had to put $2 billion into EA.
    - newZWhoDis 3y ago
      > I might despise Musk, and I'm not a fan of Tesla lately I’m getting sick of this tiptoeing in every thread that mentions Tesla. No ones going to come to your house and beat you if you say something positive, un-hedged, about Tesla
      - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
        That's not the reason I mention it. So often with any discussion about Tesla's fortunes you get ardent fanboys and detractors, who appear to be arguing much more from a tribal perspective than from an unbiased consideration of the facts. Thus, the reason I mention it is to emphasize that I'm not a Tesla fanboy, yet, from solely an objective perspective, I think their work here is deserving of praise.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > Thank you Tesla for helping bring about a better standard here! You should probably thank the government, too. When the feds decided they were going to put billions in subsidies to a national charging network, the original regulations basically required CCS, because that was really the only cross-platform game in town - Tesla was proprietary and not open to other automakers. In a brilliant bit of chutzpah, in response Tesla renamed their charging system the "North American Charging Standard" and started coaxing other auto companies to get on board, which most other companies were OK with because Tesla has by far the best fast charging network. But it was really the government subsidies, and the threat that Tesla would be left behind if everyone else went with CCS, that sparked the opening up of NACS in the first place.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    A large number of standards are what one company did on their own and then made available to everybody via the likes of ANSI/ECMA/ISO. There are a number of reasons a company would want to do this.
    - antonjs 3y ago
      Rough consensus, running chargers at work. [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_consensus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_consensus
    - reportingsjr 3y ago
      This is basically how USB C became a thing. A group of engineers at Google created the connector design and then gave it to the USB standards body to use as the next gen.
      - bsder 3y ago
        Citation, please. More bluntly: I simply don't believe you. Google has absolutely none of the expertise required to put such a connector together. It requires a very specific set of skills in chip design, signal integrity, and connector design which Google has none of.
stetrain 3y ago
NACS / J3400 still uses CCS communications, just over Tesla's connector.
arghwhat 3y ago
Cable weight corresponds to charging power rating and choice of materials, not plug choice. A combined CCS2 plug is chunkier and might be a bit heavier, but not compared to, say, using a fuel pump.
- phkahler 3y ago
  Just go try them both. CCS2 Has separate AC and DC conductors, and the plug is huge owing to having 2 pair of charging pins and backward compatibility. They are more awkward and heavier than a fuel pump, and significantly heavier than the Tesla plugs. It's terrible.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    > They are more awkward and heavier than a fuel pump Really? I don't doubt that Tesla's plugs are smaller and lighter, but it always seemed a bit caricature-ist about people saying how horrible the CCS plugs are and that they weigh like a million pounds or something. They certainly never seemed heavier or harder to manipulate to me compared to a gas pump, so I just never understood this complaint.
    - parineum 3y ago
      I do think they are worse than fuel pumps in those aspects but the real issue is that, when you pull up to a gas pump, you usually pull your car right up to the pump and it's just a foot or two away from where the pump is. Parking lot style EV chargers mean that I'm frequently pulling the charging cable across the front of my car and trying to plug the cable in straight while the tension on the cable is pulling it sideways. It frequently means it's a two hand job, one on the cable to keep in straight and the other guiding the plug in to the port.
    - BluePen7 3y ago
      Where did you charge? I recently tried the ones at Esso in Canada, it literally feels like 4x the weight. I've never needed 2 handles to manipulate a gas pump or Tesla charger, but with the CCS I had to use both hands and my body weight to sorta force it around. It was wild.
Vicinity9635 3y ago
[dead]
martindbp 3y ago
Shall we call it... I don't know, a "win-win"?
hawk01 3y ago
Can other manufacturers produce Tesla charging cable else we're setting up a lightning cable vs USB-c situation for future us

aik 3y ago

Agreed. Thank you Tesla for helping bring about a better standard here!

alephnerd 3y ago
Better maintained than the horror show that is Electrify America as well
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  I've posted about this before, but the reason EA is such a horror show is due to their history. EA was created basically as government-mandated punishment against Volkswagen for dieselgate. So it's not that surprising that they didn't feel incentivized to deliver a great product. Compare that to the Supercharger network, where providing a great experience is a huge selling point for Teslas. I might despise Musk, and I'm not a fan of Tesla lately, but you do really have to hand it to them: they were prescient and put in all the hard work of building out the best fast charging network, so good for them for reaping the benefits.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    > EA was created basically as government-mandated punishment against Volkswagen I didn't know that. Do you have some documentation about that. Would be fun reading material for the holidays > I might despise Musk, and I'm not a fan of Tesla lately, but you do really have to hand it to them: they were prescient and put in all the hard work of building out the best fast charging network, so good for them for reaping the benefits. Same boat club.
    - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
      The Wikipedia pages for EA and the VW emissions scandal give a good overview with linked sources. As part of the consent decree, VW had to put $2 billion into EA.
  - newZWhoDis 3y ago
    > I might despise Musk, and I'm not a fan of Tesla lately I’m getting sick of this tiptoeing in every thread that mentions Tesla. No ones going to come to your house and beat you if you say something positive, un-hedged, about Tesla
    - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
      That's not the reason I mention it. So often with any discussion about Tesla's fortunes you get ardent fanboys and detractors, who appear to be arguing much more from a tribal perspective than from an unbiased consideration of the facts. Thus, the reason I mention it is to emphasize that I'm not a Tesla fanboy, yet, from solely an objective perspective, I think their work here is deserving of praise.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> Thank you Tesla for helping bring about a better standard here! You should probably thank the government, too. When the feds decided they were going to put billions in subsidies to a national charging network, the original regulations basically required CCS, because that was really the only cross-platform game in town - Tesla was proprietary and not open to other automakers. In a brilliant bit of chutzpah, in response Tesla renamed their charging system the "North American Charging Standard" and started coaxing other auto companies to get on board, which most other companies were OK with because Tesla has by far the best fast charging network. But it was really the government subsidies, and the threat that Tesla would be left behind if everyone else went with CCS, that sparked the opening up of NACS in the first place.
- bluGill 3y ago
  A large number of standards are what one company did on their own and then made available to everybody via the likes of ANSI/ECMA/ISO. There are a number of reasons a company would want to do this.
  - antonjs 3y ago
    Rough consensus, running chargers at work. [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_consensus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_consensus
  - reportingsjr 3y ago
    This is basically how USB C became a thing. A group of engineers at Google created the connector design and then gave it to the USB standards body to use as the next gen.
    - bsder 3y ago
      Citation, please. More bluntly: I simply don't believe you. Google has absolutely none of the expertise required to put such a connector together. It requires a very specific set of skills in chip design, signal integrity, and connector design which Google has none of.

stetrain 3y ago

NACS / J3400 still uses CCS communications, just over Tesla's connector.

arghwhat 3y ago

Cable weight corresponds to charging power rating and choice of materials, not plug choice. A combined CCS2 plug is chunkier and might be a bit heavier, but not compared to, say, using a fuel pump.

phkahler 3y ago
Just go try them both. CCS2 Has separate AC and DC conductors, and the plug is huge owing to having 2 pair of charging pins and backward compatibility. They are more awkward and heavier than a fuel pump, and significantly heavier than the Tesla plugs. It's terrible.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > They are more awkward and heavier than a fuel pump Really? I don't doubt that Tesla's plugs are smaller and lighter, but it always seemed a bit caricature-ist about people saying how horrible the CCS plugs are and that they weigh like a million pounds or something. They certainly never seemed heavier or harder to manipulate to me compared to a gas pump, so I just never understood this complaint.
  - parineum 3y ago
    I do think they are worse than fuel pumps in those aspects but the real issue is that, when you pull up to a gas pump, you usually pull your car right up to the pump and it's just a foot or two away from where the pump is. Parking lot style EV chargers mean that I'm frequently pulling the charging cable across the front of my car and trying to plug the cable in straight while the tension on the cable is pulling it sideways. It frequently means it's a two hand job, one on the cable to keep in straight and the other guiding the plug in to the port.
  - BluePen7 3y ago
    Where did you charge? I recently tried the ones at Esso in Canada, it literally feels like 4x the weight. I've never needed 2 handles to manipulate a gas pump or Tesla charger, but with the CCS I had to use both hands and my body weight to sorta force it around. It was wild.

Vicinity9635 3y ago

[dead]

martindbp 3y ago

Shall we call it... I don't know, a "win-win"?

hawk01 3y ago

Can other manufacturers produce Tesla charging cable else we're setting up a lightning cable vs USB-c situation for future us