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Which countries have landed men on the moon using garbage standards? Which countries have landed men on the moon using your preferred standards?

by SEJeff 3y ago

kataklasm 3y ago
I don't know if US Space Programs is the end-all be-all argument you think it is, looking at Orion and SLS.
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  As opposed to which other wildly successful space programs? Ariane? Lol. I'm not American but yes us space programs are absolutely way ahead and have been so since Apollo. They are also pretty good arguments whenever someone tries to argue that the US is backwards technologically because of... measurement units lol. Not sure why it's even worth denying that. There is tons of stuff to criticize the US for, or where the US is behind but space programs are probably not one of them lol.
- SEJeff 3y ago
  The irony here is that even the not so great American space programs, like the two you mentioned, are still leagues ahead of most of the rest of world’s space programs. Also, the SLS launch that’s happened was flawless. Sure the thing is expensive, but how is it a failure? Orion and SLS will medium to long term likely both be replaced by Starship / Superheavy. The only non-American super impressive space program that I’ve seen is actually India’s ISRO. Their cost for traditional rockets price per kg to orbit is quite impressive, though Spacex dominates everyone on price due to reusability.
thiago_fm 3y ago
Any country can land on the moon after spending the same amount of money and effort as the US; intelligence and talent are abundant, existing in every nation and human being.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Any country can land on the moon after spending the same amount of money and effort as the US Objectively false in so many domains. Americans aren’t smarter than other people. But we are very good at organising resources for novel pursuits.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    There is no reason other countries couldn't do that. Many are too poor, but they could get rich (how is an open question) and do it.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > no reason other countries couldn't do that Yes, there are. A simple example is Latin America. Americans are willing to risk a recession, which predominantly falls on the poor, to stave off inflation. We’re slow to regulate and quick to let immigrate (even if we sing a song and dance about it, constantly) in a way most polities won’t tolerate. These come at costs that aren’t bearable for many, including in America. But the counterpoint is a tremendous capacity to reorganise and marshal resources.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        That is why they won't do it, not why they can't.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        That’s closer to can’t than won’t. The political structure won’t permit it. We’re comparing sociopolitical systems; suspending the limitations of the society and polity makes the argument tautology.
  - thiago_fm 3y ago
    We'll see if that talent will still exist once the money printing press stops working. Americans are great at many things, just like everybody else.
pdabbadabba 3y ago
Actually, the U.S. put people on the moon using metric units. Contrary to popular belief, the technical parts of the USG (including NASA) generally use metric. Of course, this is just to point out a different kind of error in GP's comment.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Metric is widely used in the US in many contexts where it actually matter. That we generally use (our version of) Imperial units in the kitchen or in home construction is sort of irrelevant however riled up it gets some Europeans--which is maybe a bit of a net plus.
  - SEJeff 3y ago
    The most hilarious thing is that the Imperial units came from the UK. They should blame the UK for the Imperial units, not us.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      The reality is that the Anglosphere as a whole uses a hybrid system to greater or lesser degrees. Heck, stones are still used at least somewhat in the UK. And I'd argue that Fahrenheit is actually a pretty decent system for day-to-day use. The degrees are smaller and it's not really that hard to remember 32 degrees is freezing. And sub-zero is fricking cold in most places. If you want to be all-on scientific, use Kelvin. But that would be silly for day-to-day use.
      - TMWNN 3y ago
        >And I'd argue that Fahrenheit is actually a pretty decent system for day-to-day use. The degrees are smaller and it's not really that hard to remember 32 degrees is freezing. Also, in Fahrenheit 0-100 degrees roughly demarcates the survival zone for humans without special precautions.
- WrongAssumption 3y ago
nicolas_17 3y ago
Which countries have lost spacecraft due to problems entirely attributable to the use of imperial units? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter
myko 3y ago
As an American veteran I'll point out that like the space program the US military use metric units

Which countries have landed men on the moon using garbage standards? Which countries have landed men on the moon using your preferred standards?

by SEJeff 3y ago

Which countries have landed men on the moon using garbage standards? Which countries have landed men on the moon using your preferred standards?

kataklasm 3y ago

I don't know if US Space Programs is the end-all be-all argument you think it is, looking at Orion and SLS.

mardifoufs 3y ago
As opposed to which other wildly successful space programs? Ariane? Lol. I'm not American but yes us space programs are absolutely way ahead and have been so since Apollo. They are also pretty good arguments whenever someone tries to argue that the US is backwards technologically because of... measurement units lol. Not sure why it's even worth denying that. There is tons of stuff to criticize the US for, or where the US is behind but space programs are probably not one of them lol.
SEJeff 3y ago
The irony here is that even the not so great American space programs, like the two you mentioned, are still leagues ahead of most of the rest of world’s space programs. Also, the SLS launch that’s happened was flawless. Sure the thing is expensive, but how is it a failure? Orion and SLS will medium to long term likely both be replaced by Starship / Superheavy. The only non-American super impressive space program that I’ve seen is actually India’s ISRO. Their cost for traditional rockets price per kg to orbit is quite impressive, though Spacex dominates everyone on price due to reusability.

thiago_fm 3y ago

Any country can land on the moon after spending the same amount of money and effort as the US; intelligence and talent are abundant, existing in every nation and human being.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Any country can land on the moon after spending the same amount of money and effort as the US Objectively false in so many domains. Americans aren’t smarter than other people. But we are very good at organising resources for novel pursuits.
- bluGill 3y ago
  There is no reason other countries couldn't do that. Many are too poor, but they could get rich (how is an open question) and do it.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > no reason other countries couldn't do that Yes, there are. A simple example is Latin America. Americans are willing to risk a recession, which predominantly falls on the poor, to stave off inflation. We’re slow to regulate and quick to let immigrate (even if we sing a song and dance about it, constantly) in a way most polities won’t tolerate. These come at costs that aren’t bearable for many, including in America. But the counterpoint is a tremendous capacity to reorganise and marshal resources.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      That is why they won't do it, not why they can't.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        That’s closer to can’t than won’t. The political structure won’t permit it. We’re comparing sociopolitical systems; suspending the limitations of the society and polity makes the argument tautology.
- thiago_fm 3y ago
  We'll see if that talent will still exist once the money printing press stops working. Americans are great at many things, just like everybody else.

pdabbadabba 3y ago

Actually, the U.S. put people on the moon using metric units. Contrary to popular belief, the technical parts of the USG (including NASA) generally use metric. Of course, this is just to point out a different kind of error in GP's comment.

ghaff 3y ago
Metric is widely used in the US in many contexts where it actually matter. That we generally use (our version of) Imperial units in the kitchen or in home construction is sort of irrelevant however riled up it gets some Europeans--which is maybe a bit of a net plus.
- SEJeff 3y ago
  The most hilarious thing is that the Imperial units came from the UK. They should blame the UK for the Imperial units, not us.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    The reality is that the Anglosphere as a whole uses a hybrid system to greater or lesser degrees. Heck, stones are still used at least somewhat in the UK. And I'd argue that Fahrenheit is actually a pretty decent system for day-to-day use. The degrees are smaller and it's not really that hard to remember 32 degrees is freezing. And sub-zero is fricking cold in most places. If you want to be all-on scientific, use Kelvin. But that would be silly for day-to-day use.
    - TMWNN 3y ago
      >And I'd argue that Fahrenheit is actually a pretty decent system for day-to-day use. The degrees are smaller and it's not really that hard to remember 32 degrees is freezing. Also, in Fahrenheit 0-100 degrees roughly demarcates the survival zone for humans without special precautions.
WrongAssumption 3y ago

nicolas_17 3y ago

Which countries have lost spacecraft due to problems entirely attributable to the use of imperial units? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter

myko 3y ago

As an American veteran I'll point out that like the space program the US military use metric units