6 ms·

Elizabeth line: Central stations now boasting 4G phone coverage

32 points by edward 3y ago

iamben 3y ago
I love the 4G coverage on the Jubilee line, it's absolute great. I assume the gaps in the 'end of spring' coverage between Woolwich and Custom House are under the river and the two places the train surfaces (where it wouldn't be needed)?
KerrickStaley 3y ago
A related effort is the NYC MTA's 10-year project to bring cell connectivity to subway tunnels (not just stations). You can already experience this if you take the L from Manhattan to Brooklyn: you will have continuous cell connectivity from the First Ave station to the Bedford Ave station. https://new.mta.info/press-release/mta-announces-universal-subway-wireless-connectivity-plan https://new.mta.info/press-release/mta-announces-universal-s... It's not clear from the article whether the Underground is trying to add between-station cell coverage?
- mattlondon 3y ago
  There is between station coverage. On the northern line I have been in-tunnel and got a solid full-signal 5g with 130mbps on speed.cloudflare.com tests for example.
  - throw156754228 3y ago
    My phone is dead from Kennington to Tooting Bec. Does it differ by telco provider?
    - mattlondon 3y ago
      This was between Camden and chalk farm IIRC. It's not fully rolled out yet.
  - wdb 3y ago
    Which provider? I don't get such speeds anywhere in London with O2
    - mattlondon 3y ago
      Vodafone. I've seen similar speeds, but on like the 10th floor of a building. It might be in the tube less people are sharing the signal so there is less contention?
subpixel 3y ago
I know it's considered a necessity by most, but I used to relish the time I had to spend on the NYC subway precisely because there was no cell coverage and I could read a book without the strong temptation to dick around on my phone.
- pixxel 3y ago
  I travelled into London by train recently for the first time in 15 years. 95% of commuters were staring at their phones. Perhaps previously they were staring at newspapers etc. I don’t know. I don’t recall people walking and reading newspapers though. Or while driving. Or when socialising with friends. Anyways, for me it was a depressing sight. The view out of the train window wasn’t.
  - cedws 3y ago
    Yeah, but what else can you do? I stare out of the window sometimes but it gets old when you're commuting 2+ hours a day. I would find it difficult to read a book in a distracting environment like public transport, plus I have to switch between multiple trains which would tear me out of focus. Can't always get a seat either. I know that doing random shit on my phone during my commute absolutely fries my attention span, but I don't have any solution.
    - jumpkick 3y ago
      Solitary thinking and reflecting, I guess.
      - mgbmtl 3y ago
        I can do plenty of that while working ;-)
    - mattlondon 3y ago
      In the tube, if you stare out of the window it is just black anyway so there is nothing to even look at, plus the seats (if you are lucky to get one) face away from the windows anyway.
andrelaszlo 3y ago
It's not clear to me but it sounds like it wasn't an upgrade from 3G but from wifi, and wifi was only accessible at the stations? The Stockholm subway has had 4G since 2015, but that was replacing the 2G/3G networks. It would be interesting to know how it works. Are there a lot of smaller base stations? Is there a station on each train that bridges traffic using some other technology that works better underground? https://computersweden-idg-se.translate.goog/2.2683/1.611884/mobiloperatorernas-nya-sl-avtal-oppnar-for-supersurf-i-tunnelbanan?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=sv&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://computersweden-idg-se.translate.goog/2.2683/1.611884...
- mattlondon 3y ago
  Yeah there was no cellular service, and the WiFi was limited to certain providers. They've been talking about this for decades as far as I can remember. They always resisted it because they were worried someone would use it to set off a bomb (London has quite a lot of terrorism in it's semi-recent history). I guess now they realised that suicide bombers are probably more likely than a Nokia 3310 rigged up to a detonator.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    Oh, that explains why the Wi-Fi was weirdly not available to international tourists/required registration with mobile networks. I've been wondering about that every time I've been to London.
    - Symbiote 3y ago
      It's nothing to do with bombs, that's just a conspiracy theory. There's some explanation here — power, space, time and cost were all issues: https://www.londonreconnections.com/2023/deep-inside-bringing-mobile-phone-coverage-to-the-underground-theengineer/ https://www.londonreconnections.com/2023/deep-inside-bringin... The wifi is available if you have a British SIM from a major network, there are also locals who can't use it.
    - Angostura 3y ago
      > Oh, that explains why the Wi-Fi was weirdly not available to international tourists/required registration with mobile networks. Not really. The wifi was funded by the cellular/broadband networks as a value-add for their customers. So I was a broadband Virgin customer and could use Virgin Wifi on the Tube
antirez 3y ago
Odd that this is presented as a news. Milan tube has 3G and later 4G coverage for many many years now.
- afavour 3y ago
  …why would that mean it isn’t news that it’s available in London? > Your guide to London's culture and transport news and events taking place across the city If that’s the mission statement of your site I’m struggling to work out how you’d get to “Milan already has this, we shouldn’t cover it”.
- lxgr 3y ago
  Well, it is news for commuters in London, given that the signal from the Milan tube likely doesn't reach that far.
- kraftman 3y ago
  My house has fiber, how is milans tube having 4G impressive?
lol768 3y ago
TfL/Boldyn/telco's roll-out of mobile coverage in London across LUL and the Lizzy line has been frustratingly slow, and dates have slipped repeatedly. There's a forum thread chronicling the project and the successive press releases as goals have been watered down: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lu-elizabeth-line-4g-update.240342/ https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lu-elizabeth-line-4g-up... Proper (incl tunnels) coverage was promised "soon" after the Elizabeth Line opened. Indeed, the trains all advertised a completely pointless TfL WiFi SSID since day 1, which still doesn't work en-route because there's of course no mobile network. This news is a good step in the right direction, but will still only work on platforms and in ticket halls. Let's see what actually gets achieved by the end of 2024.
cyanydeez 3y ago
can we all agree 4Gand5G are good enough and focus on other technology improvements?
- wdb 3y ago
  Can't even get 4G speeds (~100Mbit) anyways :) That would be faster than the internet at home lol
rajman187 3y ago
In a world of finite time and resources, wouldn't it be more useful to improve services on the lines themselves? The Elizabeth line had the highest rate of cancelations in the entire UK between July and September https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-cancelled-train-tube-overground-london-b1125398.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-can... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/08/elizabeth-line-passengers-in-london-stranded-after-electric-cables-damaged https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/08/elizabeth-li...

32 points by edward 3y ago

I love the 4G coverage on the Jubilee line, it's absolute great. I assume the gaps in the 'end of spring' coverage between Woolwich and Custom House are under the river and the two places the train surfaces (where it wouldn't be needed)?

KerrickStaley 3y ago

A related effort is the NYC MTA's 10-year project to bring cell connectivity to subway tunnels (not just stations). You can already experience this if you take the L from Manhattan to Brooklyn: you will have continuous cell connectivity from the First Ave station to the Bedford Ave station. https://new.mta.info/press-release/mta-announces-universal-subway-wireless-connectivity-plan https://new.mta.info/press-release/mta-announces-universal-s... It's not clear from the article whether the Underground is trying to add between-station cell coverage?

mattlondon 3y ago
There is between station coverage. On the northern line I have been in-tunnel and got a solid full-signal 5g with 130mbps on speed.cloudflare.com tests for example.
- throw156754228 3y ago
  My phone is dead from Kennington to Tooting Bec. Does it differ by telco provider?
  - mattlondon 3y ago
    This was between Camden and chalk farm IIRC. It's not fully rolled out yet.
- wdb 3y ago
  Which provider? I don't get such speeds anywhere in London with O2
  - mattlondon 3y ago
    Vodafone. I've seen similar speeds, but on like the 10th floor of a building. It might be in the tube less people are sharing the signal so there is less contention?

subpixel 3y ago

I know it's considered a necessity by most, but I used to relish the time I had to spend on the NYC subway precisely because there was no cell coverage and I could read a book without the strong temptation to dick around on my phone.

pixxel 3y ago
I travelled into London by train recently for the first time in 15 years. 95% of commuters were staring at their phones. Perhaps previously they were staring at newspapers etc. I don’t know. I don’t recall people walking and reading newspapers though. Or while driving. Or when socialising with friends. Anyways, for me it was a depressing sight. The view out of the train window wasn’t.
- cedws 3y ago
  Yeah, but what else can you do? I stare out of the window sometimes but it gets old when you're commuting 2+ hours a day. I would find it difficult to read a book in a distracting environment like public transport, plus I have to switch between multiple trains which would tear me out of focus. Can't always get a seat either. I know that doing random shit on my phone during my commute absolutely fries my attention span, but I don't have any solution.
  - jumpkick 3y ago
    Solitary thinking and reflecting, I guess.
    - mgbmtl 3y ago
      I can do plenty of that while working ;-)
  - mattlondon 3y ago
    In the tube, if you stare out of the window it is just black anyway so there is nothing to even look at, plus the seats (if you are lucky to get one) face away from the windows anyway.

andrelaszlo 3y ago

It's not clear to me but it sounds like it wasn't an upgrade from 3G but from wifi, and wifi was only accessible at the stations? The Stockholm subway has had 4G since 2015, but that was replacing the 2G/3G networks. It would be interesting to know how it works. Are there a lot of smaller base stations? Is there a station on each train that bridges traffic using some other technology that works better underground? https://computersweden-idg-se.translate.goog/2.2683/1.611884/mobiloperatorernas-nya-sl-avtal-oppnar-for-supersurf-i-tunnelbanan?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=sv&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://computersweden-idg-se.translate.goog/2.2683/1.611884...

mattlondon 3y ago
Yeah there was no cellular service, and the WiFi was limited to certain providers. They've been talking about this for decades as far as I can remember. They always resisted it because they were worried someone would use it to set off a bomb (London has quite a lot of terrorism in it's semi-recent history). I guess now they realised that suicide bombers are probably more likely than a Nokia 3310 rigged up to a detonator.
- lxgr 3y ago
  Oh, that explains why the Wi-Fi was weirdly not available to international tourists/required registration with mobile networks. I've been wondering about that every time I've been to London.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    It's nothing to do with bombs, that's just a conspiracy theory. There's some explanation here — power, space, time and cost were all issues: https://www.londonreconnections.com/2023/deep-inside-bringing-mobile-phone-coverage-to-the-underground-theengineer/ https://www.londonreconnections.com/2023/deep-inside-bringin... The wifi is available if you have a British SIM from a major network, there are also locals who can't use it.
  - Angostura 3y ago
    > Oh, that explains why the Wi-Fi was weirdly not available to international tourists/required registration with mobile networks. Not really. The wifi was funded by the cellular/broadband networks as a value-add for their customers. So I was a broadband Virgin customer and could use Virgin Wifi on the Tube

antirez 3y ago

Odd that this is presented as a news. Milan tube has 3G and later 4G coverage for many many years now.

afavour 3y ago
…why would that mean it isn’t news that it’s available in London? > Your guide to London's culture and transport news and events taking place across the city If that’s the mission statement of your site I’m struggling to work out how you’d get to “Milan already has this, we shouldn’t cover it”.
lxgr 3y ago
Well, it is news for commuters in London, given that the signal from the Milan tube likely doesn't reach that far.
kraftman 3y ago
My house has fiber, how is milans tube having 4G impressive?

lol768 3y ago

TfL/Boldyn/telco's roll-out of mobile coverage in London across LUL and the Lizzy line has been frustratingly slow, and dates have slipped repeatedly. There's a forum thread chronicling the project and the successive press releases as goals have been watered down: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lu-elizabeth-line-4g-update.240342/ https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lu-elizabeth-line-4g-up... Proper (incl tunnels) coverage was promised "soon" after the Elizabeth Line opened. Indeed, the trains all advertised a completely pointless TfL WiFi SSID since day 1, which still doesn't work en-route because there's of course no mobile network. This news is a good step in the right direction, but will still only work on platforms and in ticket halls. Let's see what actually gets achieved by the end of 2024.

cyanydeez 3y ago

can we all agree 4Gand5G are good enough and focus on other technology improvements?

wdb 3y ago
Can't even get 4G speeds (~100Mbit) anyways :) That would be faster than the internet at home lol

rajman187 3y ago

In a world of finite time and resources, wouldn't it be more useful to improve services on the lines themselves? The Elizabeth line had the highest rate of cancelations in the entire UK between July and September https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-cancelled-train-tube-overground-london-b1125398.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-can... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/08/elizabeth-line-passengers-in-london-stranded-after-electric-cables-damaged https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/08/elizabeth-li...