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Your prediction is probably right but it highlights what I still find to be a fundamental problem with Wayland. It's something that's very much user-facing, as
by ACS_Solver 3y ago
Your prediction is probably right but it highlights what I still find to be a fundamental problem with Wayland. It's something that's very much user-facing, as it affects the behavior of desktop environments and several types of programs. It's also something that developers want because they don't want to write X applications or maintain Xorg itself.
The disconnect is developers want Wayland to replace X ASAP, while users want a smooth experience where nothing breaks due to it being Wayland, which is a high bar.
For me, Wayland remains one of the least favorite technologies I've dealt with. As a developer, I needed to port a custom Linux system to hardware that only has Wayland drivers and it was a giant pain. Wayland offers no advantage at all for that system but it broke a lot of functionality that relied on X in terms of window placement, etc. Took weeks of work to get a more complicated system that does 90% of what the previous one did, while still missing a few convenient features.
As a user, I try Wayland once in a while on one of my computers. It's improving - or more precisely, it's not Wayland itself but rather Wayland support of other software, like KDE. Earlier this year I finally worked under KDE/Wayland for a couple days with no issues, but then I again ran into some weirdness when using Unity so once again back to Xorg. What really makes Wayland hard to daily drive for me is that I have zero issues with Xorg. I don't use the things X can't do at all (fractional scaling is one I think?) so the bar for Wayland as a daily driver is admittedly a very high one, it needs to be completely free of issues because Xorg already does everything for me and Wayland's advantages are for the devs, not for me as a desktop user.
It also feels like it's improving slower than anything else has. Printing on Linux used to be a pain but now it works well. Wifi on Linux was hard to get working at some point but now it just works. Sensationally, gaming on Linux has become as easy as it is on Windows. Wayland protocols hit 1.0 in 2015 and now nine years later, it's approaching usability.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago> As a developer, I needed to port a custom Linux system to hardware that only has Wayland drivers and it was a giant pain. Wayland offers no advantage at all for that system but it broke a lot of functionality that relied on X in terms of window placement, etc. FWIW, I've had decent luck running cage ( https://www.hjdskes.nl/projects/cage/ https://www.hjdskes.nl/projects/cage/ ), then on that xwayland, and then just ignoring wayland and running X clients. The result does still have some slight quirks, but it mostly works fine.
- ACS_Solver 3y agoThat looks pretty similar to what I ended up with! In the end, I had Weston running a rootful fullscreen Xwayland as the only Wayland window, and then X clients within that. There were still some complications, since I also wanted to make use of some GStreamer overlays that could totally sidestep window management, and the result wasn't perfect but it worked fine. Still, I can't help but be somewhat unhappy about how the forced use of Wayland resulted in a fair amount of work, the end result of which was running X clients anyway and trying to pretend Wayland isn't there.