5 ms·

Doesnt something like this just push underage viewers into going to "non mainstream" sites to get porn, and probably the stuff there has a higher chance of bein

Doesnt something like this just push underage viewers into going to "non mainstream" sites to get porn, and probably the stuff there has a higher chance of being illegal or at least more "unusual" than what you'd see on pornhub?

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
Then they can deal with those "non mainstream" sites next or adapt their regulation? I don't understand the criticism of "they can just do <x>" because it's true for nearly any regulation or law.
- supergarfield 3y ago
  Some laws are much easier to evade than others, and some laws have especially bad side effects when evaded. (A law about e.g. requiring a certain type of government certification before a large construction project can be undertaken, for instance, would be far harder to evade than this one, and "they can just do <x>" would probably be a bad objection) Using non mainstream sites instead seems like a realistic way people are going to skirt this law, and those are very hard to regulate without other unpleasant side effects on Internet freedom. I think it's a reasonable concern to raise.
- richbell 3y ago
  Playing a slow and ineffective cat-and-mouse game seems like a waste of time. Imposing a burden on a handful of mainstream websites that already invest significantly into "safety" will push people into sites that are less able or willing to do so. Unlike the target of most other regulations or laws, it is trivial to find and browse new websites and there is (almost) no cost or risk. The only way it can be effectively regulated is with draconian measures.
viraptor 3y ago
Some time ago probably yes. Now... is anything really mainstream/usual? We've had the incest porn videos on the front page for how many years now? Many porn subreddits and gen-ai porn communities are more chill and usual than pornhub in my opinion. At this point I'm not sure makelovenotporn is even mainstream and yeah... people could sure use it as an alternative for more "usual" content.
- dist-epoch 3y ago
  > We've had the incest porn videos on the front page for how many years now Now there are a lot of sexy mother/daughter dancing videos on Facebook reels. Non-nudity, but the inspiration is clear.
- randomdata 3y ago
  > Now... is anything really mainstream/usual? We've had the incest porn videos on the front page for how many years now? Bad storylines in porn have always been the norm.
  - viraptor 3y ago
    Bad story line is one thing. Heavily leaning into taboo / illegal / abuse territory is another.
    - randomdata 3y ago
      Not really. The storylines are bad because they don't matter.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        If they don't matter why is it always incest?
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        randomdata 3y ago
        Why not? To be more clear, the exact story doesn't matter, but to have no story can be jarring. The visuals benefit from some explanation, no matter how ridiculous, as to why two (or more) people found themselves in that situation. Sure, you can come with a long and elaborate story about how two people met, went on several wonderful dates, and finally saw a heated passion for each other take over. Or you can just be lazy and say that they are in that situation because they are a family that lives together. Now the economics. You have a given budget to produce a film. You can spend it on coming up with a great story, or can spend it on higher quality actors, better lighting, etc. While I am certain there is some market for both, which of the two do you think will be more likely to rise to the top – the better story or the more visually appealing work?
jstummbillig 3y ago
What do you propose instead?
- cooper_ganglia 3y ago
  That parents do a much better job of monitoring their child’s online activity. It’s astounding to me to see minors with unrestricted access in their pockets 24/7. This isn’t healthy for growing brains.
  - mgoetzke 3y ago
    it is suprisingly hard to control phones/tablets for minors as the different tools to restrict kids access really do not work well and also do not work across ecosystems while kids often need to have a phone for school communication etc. windows/mac/linux?/xbox/ps5/nintendo/steam/etc.. used to be there where physical media, now to play games you need dozens of accounts across multiple sites with different settings and services. and even screen time limits often do not work reliable as it miscounts a lot.
    - johndunne 3y ago
      I think the simplest method is to monitor a DNS log and any of the children's devices could be monitored via a DNS log. For me, I just want to know when I need to have a conversation with them rather than scold or punish them based I what I see in the DNS log. I have a pfsense router on my network, and monitoring the DNS requests on the network could help flag when someone needs some 'loving parental guidance'. I'm honestly very nervous about this era of my parenting responsibilities, my eldest being 10 years old.
      - jonhohle 3y ago
        It’s not just online access. Some kids are drawn to screens to their own physical detriment and will stay up all night to get the endorphins hit of the next game. All kids are different, even within a family.
  - 3y ago
paxys 3y ago
You can use this argument against any law ever passed. Yes there will be a black market, and yes more people will turn to it than before, but if 99% of instances of the thing you were targeting have been removed then it is still a success.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- brookst 3y ago
  Do you think it will be as successful as the war on drugs?
  - adql 3y ago
    Dunno, is US government funding production and shipment of it like they did for drugs ? If they are not I wager chances are higher
  - _trampeltier 3y ago
    Or japanese pixel porn
  - classified 3y ago
    There's a difference between banning something for everyone and banning it for minors. I want my drugs legalized, but that doesn't mean I want to give them to children.
- nicgrev103 3y ago
  Not any law ever passed. Speed limits for example, in fact most traffic laws. Contract law, banking law, property law, a lot of criminal law, for example theft, assault. In fact I think the argument can only be used on laws that ban things for sale or consumption.
  - paxys 3y ago
    "If you make XYZ illegal it will only affect people who care about following laws" is a very common argument used for everything.
xyst 3y ago
Probably? Or maybe it will force them to search for ways to bypass EU restrictions by using a VPN to mask their traffic. It’s like how the administrator at the local high school restricting the use of flash games on the network but can still access these games by using Google as the proxy service (google used to provide option to view cached result). Or use Google translate to access the restricted site. Or use many of the public proxy sites.
m000 3y ago
Worse, this opens up the market for "free" websites riddled with malware. This can have much broader impact than a few teens watching the wrong video. I would guess that the "big 3" at least maintain a modicum of security, and surely don't actively try to infect visitor's computers. That's something you will lose if you push users away from VLOPs.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Probably, but they will know they're going down a seedy route. I mean did banning Trump and fighting against right-wing politics and fake news stop it? No, it pushed the people that wanted to see it to the fringes. But it also meant that people that didn't seek it out didn't get exposed to it, countering a slow drip feed of fake news and slow changing ideologies in the masses.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

Then they can deal with those "non mainstream" sites next or adapt their regulation? I don't understand the criticism of "they can just do <x>" because it's true for nearly any regulation or law.

supergarfield 3y ago
Some laws are much easier to evade than others, and some laws have especially bad side effects when evaded. (A law about e.g. requiring a certain type of government certification before a large construction project can be undertaken, for instance, would be far harder to evade than this one, and "they can just do <x>" would probably be a bad objection) Using non mainstream sites instead seems like a realistic way people are going to skirt this law, and those are very hard to regulate without other unpleasant side effects on Internet freedom. I think it's a reasonable concern to raise.
richbell 3y ago
Playing a slow and ineffective cat-and-mouse game seems like a waste of time. Imposing a burden on a handful of mainstream websites that already invest significantly into "safety" will push people into sites that are less able or willing to do so. Unlike the target of most other regulations or laws, it is trivial to find and browse new websites and there is (almost) no cost or risk. The only way it can be effectively regulated is with draconian measures.

viraptor 3y ago

Some time ago probably yes. Now... is anything really mainstream/usual? We've had the incest porn videos on the front page for how many years now? Many porn subreddits and gen-ai porn communities are more chill and usual than pornhub in my opinion. At this point I'm not sure makelovenotporn is even mainstream and yeah... people could sure use it as an alternative for more "usual" content.

dist-epoch 3y ago
> We've had the incest porn videos on the front page for how many years now Now there are a lot of sexy mother/daughter dancing videos on Facebook reels. Non-nudity, but the inspiration is clear.
randomdata 3y ago
> Now... is anything really mainstream/usual? We've had the incest porn videos on the front page for how many years now? Bad storylines in porn have always been the norm.
- viraptor 3y ago
  Bad story line is one thing. Heavily leaning into taboo / illegal / abuse territory is another.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    Not really. The storylines are bad because they don't matter.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      If they don't matter why is it always incest?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - randomdata 3y ago
        Why not? To be more clear, the exact story doesn't matter, but to have no story can be jarring. The visuals benefit from some explanation, no matter how ridiculous, as to why two (or more) people found themselves in that situation. Sure, you can come with a long and elaborate story about how two people met, went on several wonderful dates, and finally saw a heated passion for each other take over. Or you can just be lazy and say that they are in that situation because they are a family that lives together. Now the economics. You have a given budget to produce a film. You can spend it on coming up with a great story, or can spend it on higher quality actors, better lighting, etc. While I am certain there is some market for both, which of the two do you think will be more likely to rise to the top – the better story or the more visually appealing work?

jstummbillig 3y ago

What do you propose instead?

cooper_ganglia 3y ago
That parents do a much better job of monitoring their child’s online activity. It’s astounding to me to see minors with unrestricted access in their pockets 24/7. This isn’t healthy for growing brains.
- mgoetzke 3y ago
  it is suprisingly hard to control phones/tablets for minors as the different tools to restrict kids access really do not work well and also do not work across ecosystems while kids often need to have a phone for school communication etc. windows/mac/linux?/xbox/ps5/nintendo/steam/etc.. used to be there where physical media, now to play games you need dozens of accounts across multiple sites with different settings and services. and even screen time limits often do not work reliable as it miscounts a lot.
  - johndunne 3y ago
    I think the simplest method is to monitor a DNS log and any of the children's devices could be monitored via a DNS log. For me, I just want to know when I need to have a conversation with them rather than scold or punish them based I what I see in the DNS log. I have a pfsense router on my network, and monitoring the DNS requests on the network could help flag when someone needs some 'loving parental guidance'. I'm honestly very nervous about this era of my parenting responsibilities, my eldest being 10 years old.
    - jonhohle 3y ago
      It’s not just online access. Some kids are drawn to screens to their own physical detriment and will stay up all night to get the endorphins hit of the next game. All kids are different, even within a family.
- 3y ago

paxys 3y ago

You can use this argument against any law ever passed. Yes there will be a black market, and yes more people will turn to it than before, but if 99% of instances of the thing you were targeting have been removed then it is still a success.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
brookst 3y ago
Do you think it will be as successful as the war on drugs?
- adql 3y ago
  Dunno, is US government funding production and shipment of it like they did for drugs ? If they are not I wager chances are higher
- _trampeltier 3y ago
  Or japanese pixel porn
- classified 3y ago
  There's a difference between banning something for everyone and banning it for minors. I want my drugs legalized, but that doesn't mean I want to give them to children.
nicgrev103 3y ago
Not any law ever passed. Speed limits for example, in fact most traffic laws. Contract law, banking law, property law, a lot of criminal law, for example theft, assault. In fact I think the argument can only be used on laws that ban things for sale or consumption.
- paxys 3y ago
  "If you make XYZ illegal it will only affect people who care about following laws" is a very common argument used for everything.

xyst 3y ago

Probably? Or maybe it will force them to search for ways to bypass EU restrictions by using a VPN to mask their traffic. It’s like how the administrator at the local high school restricting the use of flash games on the network but can still access these games by using Google as the proxy service (google used to provide option to view cached result). Or use Google translate to access the restricted site. Or use many of the public proxy sites.

m000 3y ago

Worse, this opens up the market for "free" websites riddled with malware. This can have much broader impact than a few teens watching the wrong video. I would guess that the "big 3" at least maintain a modicum of security, and surely don't actively try to infect visitor's computers. That's something you will lose if you push users away from VLOPs.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

Probably, but they will know they're going down a seedy route. I mean did banning Trump and fighting against right-wing politics and fake news stop it? No, it pushed the people that wanted to see it to the fringes. But it also meant that people that didn't seek it out didn't get exposed to it, countering a slow drip feed of fake news and slow changing ideologies in the masses.