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I can guarantee you that you're neither the only person, on HN or elsewhere, that "understands how free markets work" (if anyone can every truly fully understan

I can guarantee you that you're neither the only person, on HN or elsewhere, that "understands how free markets work" (if anyone can every truly fully understand a complex emergent system), nor are most people incapable of realising that hard work only pays off when you create value - it's just that for many people, hard work is the safest, and sometimes the only, way to get there.

WalterBright 3y ago
So why am I the only one on HN pointing these things out, and legions of HNers telling me I'm wrong? > t's just that for many people, hard work is the safest, and sometimes the only, way to get there A lot of people are disappointed because hard work got them nowhere. It's because they weren't working on things that other people valued. For example, the hardest job I ever had was working for the city maintaining the sidewalks. I was utterly exhausted at the end of each day. The job paid minimum wage, because the work had little value to it. The jobs I've had since paid a lot more, and the work wasn't hard. It was just that the work was much more valuable. > most people incapable of realising I never said they were "incapable". I said they think differently. > you're neither the only person Of course there are other people that understand them. It's just that they are rare.
- Tainnor 3y ago
  I'll give you some unsolicited advice: You come off as rather arrogant and I would suggest reflecting on it. The idea that "legions of HNers" are telling you you're wrong sounds like confirmation bias. I basically see the same old discussion about free markets vs. market regulation every day on HN and it's not as if there was ever a clear-cut consensus. Maybe somewhat expectedly, radical positions such as "markets should be 100% unregulated" or, conversely, ones espousing something close to communism are comparatively rarer than ones in the middle (most people don't tend to have radical views), but that doesn't mean you can't see them often enough here (ok, maybe I haven't seen communist takes here that often, but definitely libertarian ones). More importantly, even if everybody was disagreeing with you, it could be that they're right and you're wrong. Or that nobody is right or wrong because it's a matter of opinion. I haven't seen you take that option seriously, instead it's just other people who "don't understand" free markets
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    > You come off as rather arrogant I know. > instead it's just other people who "don't understand" free markets When I see an example of a successful commune or communist society, I'll think about changing my mind.
    - Eisenstein 3y ago
      > When I see an example of a successful commune or communist society, I'll think about changing my mind. It may not be obvious, but buying and selling land and resources for personal gain is somewhat novel in the history of humanity. Basing the entirety of society and law on the notion of a single person being able to own a piece of the earth, which they are allowed to deny others access to if they like, is unique to our particular time and culture. One could say with a fair amount of certainty that a 'commune' aka a village or tribe is the basis of the vast majority of the human experience.
    - Tainnor 3y ago
      > When I see an example of a successful commune or communist society, I'll think about changing my mind. You have completely failed to understand what I was trying to say, instead quoting something out of context. I'm assuming the reason why you get so much pushback is not because of your unpopular opinions but because you don't know how to debate properly.

WalterBright 3y ago

So why am I the only one on HN pointing these things out, and legions of HNers telling me I'm wrong? > t's just that for many people, hard work is the safest, and sometimes the only, way to get there A lot of people are disappointed because hard work got them nowhere. It's because they weren't working on things that other people valued. For example, the hardest job I ever had was working for the city maintaining the sidewalks. I was utterly exhausted at the end of each day. The job paid minimum wage, because the work had little value to it. The jobs I've had since paid a lot more, and the work wasn't hard. It was just that the work was much more valuable. > most people incapable of realising I never said they were "incapable". I said they think differently. > you're neither the only person Of course there are other people that understand them. It's just that they are rare.

Tainnor 3y ago
I'll give you some unsolicited advice: You come off as rather arrogant and I would suggest reflecting on it. The idea that "legions of HNers" are telling you you're wrong sounds like confirmation bias. I basically see the same old discussion about free markets vs. market regulation every day on HN and it's not as if there was ever a clear-cut consensus. Maybe somewhat expectedly, radical positions such as "markets should be 100% unregulated" or, conversely, ones espousing something close to communism are comparatively rarer than ones in the middle (most people don't tend to have radical views), but that doesn't mean you can't see them often enough here (ok, maybe I haven't seen communist takes here that often, but definitely libertarian ones). More importantly, even if everybody was disagreeing with you, it could be that they're right and you're wrong. Or that nobody is right or wrong because it's a matter of opinion. I haven't seen you take that option seriously, instead it's just other people who "don't understand" free markets
- WalterBright 3y ago
  > You come off as rather arrogant I know. > instead it's just other people who "don't understand" free markets When I see an example of a successful commune or communist society, I'll think about changing my mind.
  - Eisenstein 3y ago
    > When I see an example of a successful commune or communist society, I'll think about changing my mind. It may not be obvious, but buying and selling land and resources for personal gain is somewhat novel in the history of humanity. Basing the entirety of society and law on the notion of a single person being able to own a piece of the earth, which they are allowed to deny others access to if they like, is unique to our particular time and culture. One could say with a fair amount of certainty that a 'commune' aka a village or tribe is the basis of the vast majority of the human experience.
  - Tainnor 3y ago
    > When I see an example of a successful commune or communist society, I'll think about changing my mind. You have completely failed to understand what I was trying to say, instead quoting something out of context. I'm assuming the reason why you get so much pushback is not because of your unpopular opinions but because you don't know how to debate properly.