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Notesnook – open-source and zero knowledge private note taking app
- coldblues 3y agoIt's Electron, but it's one of the few Electron applications that is actually fast.
- ale42 3y agoActually several of them are reasonably fast, at least on good CPUs. What I dislike with Electron applications in general is the high overhead on the system (how many GBs of RAM for the few electron apps I need to run in the background?)... I'd like to see someone doing a study to compare how an Electron app would compare to a native one in terms of battery life on an average laptop.
- NeuroCoder 3y agoExactly. I can usually keep things on my desktop fast with Electron apps still but they eat my battery like no ones business.
- burgerrito 3y agoI was actually also impressed with the mobile app, one of the smoothest React Native-made app I used so far.
- thecodrr 3y agov3 will be even smoother. We are migrating to SQLite so startup times will be instant. Performance is a feature.
- adhi01 3y agoI've realised that making my note taking process simpler leads to much better productivity. At times I've just stopped taking notes because of the high activation energy required, now I just work with my Tablet or Notepad and worry about organising or integrating into my knowledge graph later.
- coldblues 3y agoTraditional note-taking is flawed. Take a look into Zettelkasten and stop caring about "folder organization". Logseq is great for that. I much prefer it over Obsidian because it's an outliner. Backlinks and tags make note-taking not only a breeze, but fun. I strongly suggest that you completely ignore methodologies. Write wherever it first seems fit, and keep making backlinks as a way to breadcrumb your way back to your notes. That's how I do it and it has served me extremely well.
- adhi01 3y agoThanks a lot for the suggestion! I had a look into Zettelkasten and Logseq, and I must say, it's been a game-changer for my note-taking process. The idea of not worrying too much about folder organization and just focusing on creating backlinks has made it so much more intuitive and enjoyable. By the way, I was pleasantly surprised to find out that Logseq is open source! That's a fantastic bonus. Thanks again for pointing me in this direction – it's making a real difference for me.
- pshirshov 3y agoThey have a good conception and promises but their UX is painful to say least.
- thecodrr 3y agoWhat did you find painful?
- pshirshov 3y agoMultiple minor UI glitches, search and note organization is a mess, the app is not local-first, it lacks offline mode which would be guaranteed to work on a plane, the editor is not bad but might be better, no encrypted backups, extremely limited set of syntax highlighters. And many, many other issues. Across everything I've tried, Standard Notes seems to have the best set of tradeoffs, but they refuse to implement features (like add syntax highliters for modern lagnuages, if I remember correctly, they said that they would only consider it if I prove that thousands of people need it). Anytype provides good privacy guarantees but they have crappy UX and, ergh, their app needs 5 seconds to start on a modern mac. The whole notetaking apps market is a shitshow and a total mess. Don't waste your time and money on these half-backed subscription-based electron apps.
- thecodrr 3y agoIt seems to me you are looking for a syntax highlighter in a note taking app. Which modern language are you looking for? There are encrypted backups. Actually, backups are encrypted by default. Notesnook also works offline by default so there's no need for a special mode. It's also, obviously, local-first since everything gets encrypted on your device. We don't have a lot of options there. What "might be better" in the editor?
- clyfe 3y agoI'm a https://logseq.com/ https://logseq.com/ fan.
- jayhoon 3y agoGreat to see the zero knowledge security model being adopted more widely across different types of applications. I wonder how the interoperability between E2EE (end-to-end encrypted) apps is going to look like. Zero-knowledge sharing is a solved problem, but it is not easy to implement - and many choose not to implement it. They just use key sharing in URLs, making the actual secure sharing the user's problem.
- rcarmo 3y agoNice, but the limitations on (image?) attachments and Markdown export on the free tier feel... cheap? These days I've mostly been using vimwiki, Agenda.app or OneNote for notes short/mid/long-term notes, and either of them works for the contexts I use them in. I feel like the note taking space is completely overcrowded these days, too. Even the iOS notes app does everything I could possibly need (plus syncing), and the cross-platform/private sync space is very well served with SyncThing + whatever Markdown editor you can get your hands on...
- alpaca128 3y agoI think it's fair to make attachments a paid feature. Note syncing is unlimited so for basic use it's just fine. That said notes apps never really feel like they're enough of an upgrade to make me switch from text files. It may be different if my notes grew much larger. Tagging and text search is nice but I can also have that in its basic form with grep.
- aNoob7000 3y agoI wish them luck. I use Apple's Notes app for work. I keep simple notes, but the two features I can't live without are folders and pinning notes to the top of folders.
- remram 3y agoHow open source is it? My experience is that there's always a piece missing. If I want to install it on my Android phone and my PC and have that sync "zero knowledge", do I have all the pieces in the open source release?
- elheffe80 3y agoFrom my extensive browsing of their website(/s… less than a minute… ) I couldn’t find their server/sync component being open sourced. I did see they open sourced all their clients though.
- lividly3529 3y agoThey have most of the server open sourced and have it in their roadmap to go full open source. That said what isn't open source today isn't open source and they don't have an actual track record to open source things they haven't before so YMMV.
- progbits 3y agoCtrl-f "zero" shows nothing on the homepage nor the linked pages I checked. Also zero knowledge has a very specific meaning in cryptography and I don't see how it applies here, or where the OP got this for the title. Yes this is nitpicking but I think when it comes to cryptography you have to be precise.
- remram 3y agoI think the term they meant is "end-to-end encrypted" (e.g. the service has zero knowledge of your notes' content, only your own devices). Then again, even popular services like CloudFlare use that term wrong, e.g. their setting where traffic is encrypted client-to-cloudflare and then separately cloudflare-to-server is called "end-to-end" in their dashboard. Once technical terms become marketing points, you can expect them to be used for a whole new variety of meanings.
- deafpolygon 3y agoNot to be nit-picky, but E2EE is not zero-knowledge. It's entirely possible for the data to be E2EE while the provider has all knowledge, partial knowledge or a little bit of knowledge of what you are transferring. I have seen services market E2EE while not being truly zero knowledge, so it's important to watch out for that sneaky marketing lingo.
- remram 3y agoIf the provider has all knowledge, I don't think it deserves to be called E2EE at all. E2EE implies (to me) that decryption doesn't happen until your message has reached the other end. Any decryption on the server/relay/middleman, even if re-encrypting, is not what I call E2EE.
- deafpolygon 3y agoI agree with you in principle, but being "E2EE" is just simply that - it's end-to-end encrypted. It says nothing as to who holds the encryption keys, and often times the host holds the key. Zero knowledge implies that the host has no knowledge (thus no keys) of your data.
- Oras 3y agoHow does it compare to Obsidian? Obsidian is a winner for me because I can run it locally, and if I want to sync, I can use whatever cloud service I already use. Markdown, images, tags, plugins ... etc.
- keerthiko 3y agoOther than being open source, and having cross-device sync at the free tier, I think Obsidian is superior. In fact, I simply put my Obsidian vault in a dropbox folder, and it effectively cross-device syncs quite well for me.
- burgerrito 3y agoI think Notesnook and Obsidian are on a pretty different focus. Notesnook specifically focuses on end-to-end encryption synchronization.
- ForkMeOnTinder 3y agoSo this is targeted at people who don't want to set up syncthing? What I like about Obsidian is it's literally just a bunch of markdown files, you can use them anywhere. With Notesnook, do I have to lock my data into their proprietary format? It looks like you can't even export anything other than .txt without paying. https://notesnook.com/pricing/ https://notesnook.com/pricing/ Seems like they're trying to lock you in.
- smikwily 3y agoUse it for free. Don't want to stick with it? Pay for a month and export. Not really a lock.
- linhns 3y agoSadly, cannot compare. Notesnook is a decent product but Obsidian does everything better except for syncing. However, there's the Obsidian Git extension that completely solves the issue. Obsidian all the way.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- wouldbecouldbe 3y agoThere is no app yet to rival Apple notes in start up time & sync speed & stability. Even if they sadly don't offer an Android version of their app. Seems like most of these apps focus on features instead of getting thes basics right. If I have thought I want to jot it down and continue, not wait a bunch of seconds or more to get going.
- lefixx 3y agoObsidian + syncthing seems to work fast and reliable enough
- burgerrito 3y agoNot really, as much as I like the app, the app start up time both on mobile and desktop is pretty bad, probably around 10 seconds, or more.
- rchaud 3y agoEarlier versions of Obsidian seemed faster. I've started using Markor for on the go note taking, and setting the obsidian folder as the save destination.
- CaptainOfCoit 3y agoObsidian opens in sub 0.5 seconds on my iPhone 12 mini, I have about 500 notes in my Obsidian vault. Seems to be the same speed as Apple Notes. Google Keep opens in about a second on my phone, so seems to be the slowest of them all. But I'm sure there are plenty of notes apps out there that also opens in sub 0.5 seconds, right?
- eviks 3y agoCheck cold and hot starts to the first typed symbol (not just seeing the screen), then it's easier to notice the difference
- 3y ago
- walteweiss 3y agoWhenever I see Electron, I say ‘thank you very much’ and ignore the project, obviously. Even VSCode, I cannot use it for that very reason.
- forward1 3y agoSeriously, this. One good XSS and you've got an RCE on your machine. Electron applications are the Kia/Hyundai equivalent of the software world.
- bluish29 3y agoI keep an eye on this app from time to time to see if they make their server self-hostable as they promised in 2022 but still no progress as shown in their road map. I understand the reasons that might make it less priority or even something that they wouldn't want. But at least it should be obvious. They rejected a a feature request for sync over webdav because they will make sync server self-hosted soon.
- vekker 3y agoIt's nice to see more and more open-source E2E-encrypted note taking apps. A couple years ago I thought no one really cared about this, and now they seem to be popping up everywhere. This one particularly reminds me of Standard Notes. Personally I've moved on to a privately hosted Git repo of plain Markdown files which I currently modify with Obsidian (although I'd prefer an open-source version, and Logseq doesn't quite scratch the itch like Obsidian does) - because I realised what I needed is like a self-hosted Notion-like alternative which I can trust, and Obsidian with all its plugins does exactly what I need. The only major downside is that taking notes on another device and syncing them without merge conflicts is still a pain.
- pydry 3y agoI also do this - all my small form private data goes in one E2E encrypted git repository hosted with keybase. Currently I use orgzly which just saves or loads org mode files. I do kind of wish more note taking apps would just save to file and forget E2E encryption - the problem is hard, and it's better to let specialist software handle it rather than try and do a mediocre job. I would love to see more note taking apps to handle git merge conflicts and do git commits though.
- dadarecit 3y ago[flagged]
- sandgiant 3y agoWhat does being a Pakistani national have to do with anything?
- dadarecit 3y agoHe does not answer to any reasonable Western legal system.
- drcursor 3y agoI wasn't able to find anything regarding his support for Hamas, do you have any sources/references ? Not knowing him, this comments seems more like a hate message towards Muslims/Pakistanis than an actual valid criticism.
- dadarecit 3y ago[flagged]
- drcursor 3y agoJust did, and I don't see anything note-worthy. Just for debugging the situation a bit further, do you have the same kind of issue with this twitter account : https://twitter.com/UN https://twitter.com/UN ?
- CaptainOfCoit 3y ago[flagged]
- dadarecit 3y ago[flagged]
- Brajeshwar 3y agoObsidian has raised the bar so high that any Note-Taking app that flaunts its security, privacy, or encryption must first answer the question - what “x” times is it better? Obsidian works on top of your existing or new notes and knows how to deal with them without chewing them up in an App -- even if they are encrypted. If you are playing on that theme, you are trying to be another Evernote “but better.” Many other Note-Taking apps succeed by focusing on other areas of Note-Taking, such as better team collaboration, 10x better UX than the competitors, database-ish capabilities, etc. One has to be far better than Obsidian (and their counterparts) or focus elsewhere to compete. Also, it is tough to beat FREE, but it is excellent that you want to pay. This is more from a personal angle. For work, I still want to use something the team is happy using, but I will still look for something that I can export out and answer YES to my question, “Can I walk out when I need to?”
- thecodrr 3y agoObsidian is a cool app but it's targeted for a very specific kind of user. Of course, for a technical user Obsidian would feel like home but for an average user with not a lot of technical know how, Obsidian would go way over their heads. Not everyone appreciates having to handle files, worry about syncing, security etc.
- CaptainOfCoit 3y ago> Not everyone appreciates having to handle files, worry about syncing, security etc. I don't think that's a requirement to use Obsidian? I've had, let's say "less computer savvy" friends who've gotten use out of Obsidian. AFAIK, you need to create a vault in the beginning, so you need to select somewhere on your computer where stuff gets stored. All the other things are automatic and within Obsidian, although some things are paid addons (like Obsidian Sync).
- thecodrr 3y agoMarkdown itself is more technical than, say, a WYSIWYG editor. People are more used to using MS Word and Google Docs. Obsidian prioritizes a different kind of note taking and, hence, you'll find a lot of tech-savvy users among its community. There's a reason for that.
- jongorer 3y agoNot sure about how "zero knowledge" figures into this; is the app merely E2EE? In which case, it's no different from Evernote? And there is no open source server component, so you can't host this yourself. And say what you will about Evernote, I trust them to stick around way more than another random notes startup thing. p.s. not to get too political but it seems like the founder is expressing some problematic views on his twitter account (https://twitter.com/thecodrr https://twitter.com/thecodrr). Problematic as in, he's this close to being an outspoken supporter of terrorism and radical Islam.
- thecodrr 3y agoEvernote is not E2EE.
- callahad 3y agoSince this is the second time it's been raised in this post, I looked through all of the author's tweets since October 7th. This is subjective, but I didn't find anything beyond reasonably mainstream expressions of support for the people of Palestine and anger at Israel's conduct in Gaza. What did you see that was on the verge of unconscionable?
- hikawa11 3y agoA quick glance on their repository's issues has worrying signs for data integrity and availability. Zero knowledge is cool but if you can't even keep the data safe, you're not better than me using gedit and a self-hosted file server.
- ceving 3y agoText formatting is pretty poor. I could not import Markdown. Export Markdown requires a payed Pro upgrade. It seems to be impossible to enumerate headings. And headings can not be used to create a TOC. Emacs' Org-Mode does more for me.
- riffic 3y agopaid
- gregwebs 3y agoI use NotesNook. Just imported from SimpleNote a month ago without issue. If you are like 95% of people and take very few notes, consider using Simplenote since it starts up fast (including on mobile), syncs across place is very quickly, and gets out of your way. NotesNook is very similar, but has some additional features for organization and rich media. After using Simplenote for over 5 years my notes are starting to need some more organization.
- sabellito 3y agoSame for me but I migrated from StandardNotes.
- java-man 3y agoHow does it compare?
- sabellito 3y agoFor my needs it was the same, but nook was cheaper.
- borg16 3y agocan i ask did you give Obsidian a try? I am curious what are the options notesnook is providing that makes people wanna pay for it compared to free-ish options such as Obsidian/logSeq. Is it the syncing part?
- gregwebs 3y agoyeah sync- I like to be able to jot down a note on my phone while out walking. But might follow up on my computer later. For SimpleNote and NotesNook you don't have to think about sync and its free. I would only consider paid Obsidian for the sync. I tried Obsidian early on (years ago) and though it was awful and too bloated for my needs. It looks better now, but mostly I just need low friction to writing things down.
- thecodrr 3y agoOh wow. Just heard the Notesnook is on the front page of HN. I am the co-founder so if you have any questions, feel free to ask. Oh and to clear a few confusions: 1. Notesnook is 100% open source. That includes the server, client apps, and everything else. It's not partially open source. 2. Zero knowledge does not mean Zero Knowledge Proof but Zero Knowledge as in we, the company and people behind Notesnook, have no knowledge regarding what you have in your notes. I see that this might be more accurately called "no knowledge".
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- 4ggr0 3y ago> Notesnook is 100% open source. That includes the server What about self-hosting?
- prometheon1 3y agoThe situation seems to be documented in the server repo: https://github.com/streetwriters/notesnook-sync-server?tab=readme-ov-file#todo-self-hosting https://github.com/streetwriters/notesnook-sync-server?tab=r...
- 4ggr0 3y agohmm...i wonder why it's taking so long to make the server self-hostable... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38708878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38708878 EDIT: maybe it takes a long time to do that, i don't know. it made me a bit suspicious, but I shouldn't assume malice.
- cyanydeez 3y agoI've got a similar app in process. ultimately, the value of these apps if open source seem to be in cloud server setups. I'm working to get a webrtc type light server
- forward1 3y agoCool, who did the security audit of the crypto, &c? Wait, no one did? Then kindly stop calling your app "secure".
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y agoSupposing anyone wants to hear, the single most important feature to me is self-hosting sync. Nothing else matters... not a big believer in "the cloud". It would be better if the sync use WebDAV, then the server software is just Nextcloud. But even that last point's not so important.
- pyrophane 3y agoHow is the web clipper? That is one thing I've found pretty lacking in other.
- tamimio 3y agoLooks nice, but I’m happy with obsidian + git sync, even if obsidian ceased to exist tomorrow my notes are already backed up in markdown, plus revision history and attachments. Edit: I have to say that I liked the website overall and few things like planned feature “self hosting sync server” and the ability to download apk for android without the need yo use play store, might give it a try. Edit2: After signing up, clicking the confirmation email I get “invalid token”, additionally, downloading the iPhone app and after trying to login and providing the 6digits code sent to the email, I get a “failed login attempt” email, can’t login to the app.
- smikwily 3y agoI've had the app lock me up before. I tried to get a little too secure too quickly. Lessen up the security unit you get signed into the app, then crank up the security. If you turn up the security too much, you can't toggle to get your 2FA code.
- nsriv 3y agoThis looks amazing, but I'm desperate for a cross platform (Android & PC/web) version of Noteplan3.
- FayJimez 3y agoI like the UI, desktop and mobile. A few bumps to work out, but it's new and actively developed.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]