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Profit-maximizing business is the engine of economic growth. Looking over the past couple hundred years, I’d say the outcomes have been nothing short of spectac

Profit-maximizing business is the engine of economic growth. Looking over the past couple hundred years, I’d say the outcomes have been nothing short of spectacular.

majewsky 3y ago
Just because something has had lots of positive effects, doesn't mean it isn't worth discussing the negative effects.
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
Unregulated profit maximising business has killed how many people through the trans atlantic slave trade? Without regulation, this is what happens - the bank would collect your organs for payment if they could. Buinesses have no ethical standards. Profit maximing business did not invent antibiotics, did not invent sanitation, did not create public sewers, running water, soap, GPS, and clorination of water.
- woooooo 3y ago
  Without industrialization, you never end slavery anywhere.
  - Eisenstein 3y ago
    Why did you conflate 'profit maximizing business' with 'industrialization'?
    - woooooo 3y ago
      Because I'm generally aware of western economic and political history from 1600-1800. I'm not conflating them, they were in fact conflated. Soviet russian and chinese industrialization was different, but later and not relevant to the Atlantic slave trade that parent poster was talking about.
      - Eisenstein 3y ago
        > Soviet russian and chinese industrialization was different Of course. "Industrialization requires profit, except when it doesn't". Got it. > but later and not relevant to the Atlantic slave trade that parent poster was talking about. I didn't realize they used steam ships to transport slaves from Africa to Americas, where they made them work in factories to produce industrial goods.
        woooooo 3y ago
        I think you may be fighting some ideological proxy war that I definitely don't care about. If you don't industrialize, slavery never ends. It was everywhere in human societies until industrialization.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        There is no ideological war, it is just an unfounded statement that has no direct line of reasoning. What does slavery have to do with industrialization? There weren't slaves in many pre-industrial societies. And the fact that you switched 'industrialization' for 'profit maximizing businesses' as if no one would notice (then acknowledging that communists did figure out how to do it) makes me wonder if you even thought about for more than a few seconds.
        woooooo 3y ago
        I was under the impression that most pre-industrial societies had slavery. Or at least most societies that were successful. The Bible has passages on how to be a moral slave owner. As far as conflating industrialization with capitalism, I'm sorry, I'm actually very far left politically but this is just a fact. It's underappreciated in the west that 5 year plans worked well, but they were following a template 200 years, 2 full centuries, later. 100 years after successful British capitalists banned slavery.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
  - HumanOstrich 3y ago
    You think industrialization ended slavery? I have news for you...
JohnFen 3y ago
I think that entirely depends on the outcomes you value. If you value economic growth, then yes -- it's been spectacular. However, it has also come at great cost in terms of other desirable things. It's a tradeoff. Some things are better, other things are worse. There's nothing wrong, and everything right, with examining those tradeoffs and deciding if they need adjustment.

Profit-maximizing business is the engine of economic growth. Looking over the past couple hundred years, I’d say the outcomes have been nothing short of spectacular.

majewsky 3y ago

Just because something has had lots of positive effects, doesn't mean it isn't worth discussing the negative effects.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

Unregulated profit maximising business has killed how many people through the trans atlantic slave trade? Without regulation, this is what happens - the bank would collect your organs for payment if they could. Buinesses have no ethical standards. Profit maximing business did not invent antibiotics, did not invent sanitation, did not create public sewers, running water, soap, GPS, and clorination of water.

woooooo 3y ago
Without industrialization, you never end slavery anywhere.
- Eisenstein 3y ago
  Why did you conflate 'profit maximizing business' with 'industrialization'?
  - woooooo 3y ago
    Because I'm generally aware of western economic and political history from 1600-1800. I'm not conflating them, they were in fact conflated. Soviet russian and chinese industrialization was different, but later and not relevant to the Atlantic slave trade that parent poster was talking about.
    - Eisenstein 3y ago
      > Soviet russian and chinese industrialization was different Of course. "Industrialization requires profit, except when it doesn't". Got it. > but later and not relevant to the Atlantic slave trade that parent poster was talking about. I didn't realize they used steam ships to transport slaves from Africa to Americas, where they made them work in factories to produce industrial goods.
      - woooooo 3y ago
        I think you may be fighting some ideological proxy war that I definitely don't care about. If you don't industrialize, slavery never ends. It was everywhere in human societies until industrialization.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        There is no ideological war, it is just an unfounded statement that has no direct line of reasoning. What does slavery have to do with industrialization? There weren't slaves in many pre-industrial societies. And the fact that you switched 'industrialization' for 'profit maximizing businesses' as if no one would notice (then acknowledging that communists did figure out how to do it) makes me wonder if you even thought about for more than a few seconds.
        woooooo 3y ago
        I was under the impression that most pre-industrial societies had slavery. Or at least most societies that were successful. The Bible has passages on how to be a moral slave owner. As far as conflating industrialization with capitalism, I'm sorry, I'm actually very far left politically but this is just a fact. It's underappreciated in the west that 5 year plans worked well, but they were following a template 200 years, 2 full centuries, later. 100 years after successful British capitalists banned slavery.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
- HumanOstrich 3y ago
  You think industrialization ended slavery? I have news for you...

JohnFen 3y ago

I think that entirely depends on the outcomes you value. If you value economic growth, then yes -- it's been spectacular. However, it has also come at great cost in terms of other desirable things. It's a tradeoff. Some things are better, other things are worse. There's nothing wrong, and everything right, with examining those tradeoffs and deciding if they need adjustment.