6 ms·

Airbnb is deploying AI to block New Year's Eve bookings that could be parties

18 points by saliagato 3y ago

eesmith 3y ago
"AI" can be as simple as "a bunch of if-statements in a decision tree." This doesn't say how it works, and Airbnb has published things like this before, like "Airbnb deploys AI to crack down on parties over Halloween" from a couple months ago, via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38016113 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38016113 or in general "Airbnb Is Launching 'Anti-Party Tools' to Stop Parties" from mid-2022, via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32497758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32497758. At this point I think we can say this news is more a marketing blurb than anything new or interesting.
- halflings 3y ago
  > The technology looks at hundreds of signals that could indicate a booking is higher risk for this type of incident, like the duration of the trip the guest is trying to book, how far the listing is from their location, the type of listing they’re booking, and if the reservation is being made at the last-minute, among many more. This is most likely a (simple) ML model trained on previous reports of such bookings. Not newsworthy, but probably not a bunch of if-statements.
  - passwordoops 3y ago
    I'm betting it probably doesn't even exist or if does won't be implemented. Imagine the lawsuits from people who will be rejected? No, as someone mentioned above, it's pure PR to hop on the hype train, à la Q* a few weeks back
    - dannyw 3y ago
      > Airbnb brought in anti-party measures last NYE that saw thousands of people globally blocked from booking an entire home listing on the platform, including approximately 63,550 people in the United States, 13,200 in the UK, and 5,400 in Australia. Generally speaking, unless you're in the EU, you won't be successful in suing a company that blocks you and doesn't provide a reason.
  - eesmith 3y ago
    Decision tree learning is a part of machine learning, which is a field of AI. The result is a bunch of if-statements. ;)
- msoad 3y ago
  The real "if statement" is the "if AI and $company_name in the new article, buy stocks" in the algotrading bots! This story is optimized just for that
mrtksn 3y ago
Welcome to minority report where machines guess your intentions and block you in real life. It was bad enough online. The attestation is fine but blocking? I wonder if can be used to do other stuff, like ML models that distribute the guests in certain ways to increase the chance of certain people meet in order to boost or suppress political movements. Maybe block or overprice individuals likely to engage in environmental activities in sponsorship with the oil companies? Maybe arrange pricing and availability in certain way to demoralize people from certain ideologies so it's more likely they have less energy and money to their thing. This is the kind of stuff EU needs to block.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >This is the kind of stuff EU needs to block. Airbnb needs to be blocked all together in the EU. I lost track of how many cities pushed people out and became unaffordable to the locals, because the rentals went to Airbnbs and tourists. Housing should be for shelter of the people who live, work and study there, not for tourists, they have registered hotels, motels, inns, etc dedicated just for that.
  - palemoonale 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - realusername 3y ago
    Airbnb should be back to what it was at the beginning, a way to rent a room in your own house, everything else should be banned. There's a shortage of housing everywhere, there's no place for Airbnb in such an environment.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >Airbnb should be back to what it was at the beginning, a way to rent a room in your own house Every app that starts with the idea of renting "just a room", quickly turns into an unofficial mass market rental scheme by the users. Same how every app that starts with the idea of traveling, socializing and meeting new people, eventually gets turned into an unofficial dating and hookup app by its users.
buro9 3y ago
Reminder for those in the UK and Europe... this is illegal. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/individual-rights/automated-decision-making-and-profiling/what-does-the-uk-gdpr-say-about-automated-decision-making-and-profiling/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-re... > Article 22(1) of the UK GDPR limits the circumstances in which you can make solely automated decisions, including those based on profiling, that have a legal or similarly significant effect on individuals. "legal or similarly significant effect on individuals" includes discrimination based on any protected characteristics. AirBnB in any defence will have to prove that race, age, gender, sexuality, disability, etc were _not_ part of any automated decision. As the article mentions that this is being deployed to the UK I have cited a UK specific article.
- verbify 3y ago
  I'm wondering how I could figure out that I was the victim of this. Perhaps if the booking was cancelled almost immediately after being booked. Wouldn't the workaround for airbnb to be having a member of staff 'approve' the decision (where the member of staff has thousands to approve a day,and understands that their job is to just click approve all the time).
- makingstuffs 3y ago
  Wouldn’t be surprised if Rishi and Co shred up GDPR obligations while on their spree of shredding our other rights. So far we’ve lost or are losing: Right to protest[0] Right to strike[1] Human rights[2] [0] https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-passing-new-public-order-laws-marks-dark-new-era-peaceful-protest https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-passing-new-pub... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/05/uk-ministers-announce-anti-strike-legislation https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/05/uk-ministers... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/19/rishi-sunak-could-block-key-human-rights-law-force-through-rwanda-asylum-plan https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/19/rishi-sunak-...
  - ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
    Well, if we didn't want Rishi to destroy the country so much, we shouldn't have voted for him
spacebacon 3y ago
I would assume this is easily accomplished with minimal ai. The obvious demographic to target would include young adults, college students, urban dwellers, individuals with outgoing personalities, those who enjoy socializing, and people within certain professions like event planning or entertainment. The psychographic target is also not some mystery advanced ai has to unravel… Individuals who relish social settings, finding joy in connections with others, often possess an adventurous spirit, embracing novelty and pursuing thrills. Typically extroverted, they thrive amidst lively atmospheres, delighting in music, dancing, and various forms of entertainment commonly found at gatherings. Prioritizing fun and relaxation, these individuals treasure parties as opportunities to unwind and savor life's pleasures. Some among them exhibit a willingness to take risks, drawn to experiences that provide an adrenaline rush and a sense of adventure. With all this said, airbnb is literally attacking the majority of the user base that made airbnb what it is. Sounds like airbnb may need to rebrand to Auntie BnB and start charging micro-transactions for small thrills once their user base is thoroughly oppressed.
- kthartic 3y ago
  > delighting in music, dancing, and various forms of entertainment commonly Genuine question, but how will Airbnb know this about you? Are you suggesting they've bought some 3rd party dataset that contains this information about its customers, or is somehow inferring these precise personality interests by looking at a customer's prior bookings? I'm aware Airbnb lets you book 'experiences', which could be used to infer personality, but I'm not sure how popular these actually are (as an extrovert with extroverted friends in their lates 20s/early 30s I don't know anyone that has booked any). I think it's possibly much simpler than we think - they can probably just look at your average booking size by number of guests (to determine how likely you frequently party), the type of property/location you've booked, and how close to NYE you've made the booking (a last minute NYE booking with 13 guests screams party).
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - spacebacon 3y ago
cpursley 3y ago
Just wait until this is deployed against people with the “wrong” political, religious, etc beliefs and tuned in a way that legally skirts the 1st Amendment. Update: For the down-voters, my wife was banned from Airbnb for being from the “wrong” country despite her being a naturalized US citizen.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Read the first few words of the First Amendment. The first one, even. There are lots of laws that may apply here. The First Amendment isn’t one of them.
- pizzafeelsright 3y ago
  FB, Twitter, and other sites have been suppressing links and keywords for years. Certain political and medical positions have received active suppression on these platforms which are then defended as misinformation only to be shown accurate years later.
- mdek 3y ago
  https://ijr.com/airbnb-ban-parents-conservative-youtuber-mistake/ https://ijr.com/airbnb-ban-parents-conservative-youtuber-mis...
da39a3ee 3y ago
s/AI/logistic regression/
- desku 3y ago
  I’d doubt it’s even that complicated, a few if-statements would be enough.
  - da39a3ee 3y ago
    I'm not sure why you think that. The input data is clearly quite high-dimensional. Unless you work there, it seems rather arrogant to suppose that you could replace someone's hard work with "a few if statements". Unless you meant learning a decision tree classifier from the data?
jeegsy 3y ago
Why ban parties across the platform?
- blamazon 3y ago
  For one, loud parties might upset neighbors who might coordinate politically to restrict or even ban Airbnb in their area.
  - mnd999 3y ago
    Sure, but its NYE. In most neighbourhoods there are going to be parties anyway, AirBnB or no.
    - dspillett 3y ago
      Many, but I wouldn't say most. There are a few generally quiet areas here where I wouldn't expect loud NYE parties, but there are houses taken over for AirBnB use (one of which is near me, and he needs to get his lock-box fixed, I've been asked about it a few times which begs another question: why do AirBnB renters think a random local walking by will be able to help them get in?!).
      - turquoisevar 3y ago
        Probably because there’s no dedicated front desk and any random person could be the host is my guess? I don’t know. I prefer my accommodations with a front desk, if only because I tend to check in at odd hours and it’s nice having a human available to help if there are issues. By comparison AirBnB seems like those annoying customer service “AIs” who are always eager to let you know how much you can get accomplished on the company’s website.
        dspillett 3y ago
        It could be that they are hoping that I know the owner, assuming the owner is local (often the houses specifically setup as short-term lets are not owned by someone local though, local to the city maybe but not the street), which I can understand. But on more than one occasion I've got a strong “you can't just leave us out here with no clue!” vibe which really makes me wonder just what else they expect me to do!
TrackerFF 3y ago
if (booking.customer.age <= 25) and (booking.date.between("27-12-2023","02-01-2024")): booking.decline(show_random_error=True) else: booking.confirm()
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  Yes but with AI so they can pretend it's not age-based discrimination. “we're not discriminating, maybe the computer is, we'll investigate”
  - kbos87 3y ago
    Is it discrimination if it is rooted in an objectively good reason? You also can't rent a car in a lot of places until you are 25.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      Yes. It may be legal discrimination, though. In the US, Federal law makes age discrimination illegal only if the victim is over 40.
    - TrackerFF 3y ago
      I guess if you follow a rule-based system, with hard-coded rules, you are explicitly discriminating someone. How you came up with those rules, is another discussion - it could very well be that there's some legit reason for coming up with rules, that justifies them. I honestly don't know how these discrimination laws work in the US, or many other countries. On the other hand, if you build some model/classifier, and say: Given data/features, and some constraints, minimize/maximize for probability of partying. Then that black-box model could be used to classify whether a potential renter is likely/at risk to host a party or not. You're not explicitly saying "NO PEOPLE OF CERTAIN SKIN COLOR OR GENDER UNDER A CERTAIN AGE ALOWED", but rather your classifier is doing it for you, without stating it plainly - because maybe the above group happens to get classified a lot to the "party" group/class. Such models could have a lot of bias.
Yoric 3y ago
Oh, yes, I've fallen afoul of that a few years ago. A booking for one adult (not in the stereotypical partygoer age range) and one child (definitely not in that age range) and of course Airbnb decided that it was a party and there was no way to appeal. So much fun.

18 points by saliagato 3y ago

"AI" can be as simple as "a bunch of if-statements in a decision tree." This doesn't say how it works, and Airbnb has published things like this before, like "Airbnb deploys AI to crack down on parties over Halloween" from a couple months ago, via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38016113 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38016113 or in general "Airbnb Is Launching 'Anti-Party Tools' to Stop Parties" from mid-2022, via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32497758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32497758. At this point I think we can say this news is more a marketing blurb than anything new or interesting.

halflings 3y ago
> The technology looks at hundreds of signals that could indicate a booking is higher risk for this type of incident, like the duration of the trip the guest is trying to book, how far the listing is from their location, the type of listing they’re booking, and if the reservation is being made at the last-minute, among many more. This is most likely a (simple) ML model trained on previous reports of such bookings. Not newsworthy, but probably not a bunch of if-statements.
- passwordoops 3y ago
  I'm betting it probably doesn't even exist or if does won't be implemented. Imagine the lawsuits from people who will be rejected? No, as someone mentioned above, it's pure PR to hop on the hype train, à la Q* a few weeks back
  - dannyw 3y ago
    > Airbnb brought in anti-party measures last NYE that saw thousands of people globally blocked from booking an entire home listing on the platform, including approximately 63,550 people in the United States, 13,200 in the UK, and 5,400 in Australia. Generally speaking, unless you're in the EU, you won't be successful in suing a company that blocks you and doesn't provide a reason.
- eesmith 3y ago
  Decision tree learning is a part of machine learning, which is a field of AI. The result is a bunch of if-statements. ;)
msoad 3y ago
The real "if statement" is the "if AI and $company_name in the new article, buy stocks" in the algotrading bots! This story is optimized just for that

mrtksn 3y ago

Welcome to minority report where machines guess your intentions and block you in real life. It was bad enough online. The attestation is fine but blocking? I wonder if can be used to do other stuff, like ML models that distribute the guests in certain ways to increase the chance of certain people meet in order to boost or suppress political movements. Maybe block or overprice individuals likely to engage in environmental activities in sponsorship with the oil companies? Maybe arrange pricing and availability in certain way to demoralize people from certain ideologies so it's more likely they have less energy and money to their thing. This is the kind of stuff EU needs to block.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>This is the kind of stuff EU needs to block. Airbnb needs to be blocked all together in the EU. I lost track of how many cities pushed people out and became unaffordable to the locals, because the rentals went to Airbnbs and tourists. Housing should be for shelter of the people who live, work and study there, not for tourists, they have registered hotels, motels, inns, etc dedicated just for that.
- palemoonale 3y ago
  [flagged]
- realusername 3y ago
  Airbnb should be back to what it was at the beginning, a way to rent a room in your own house, everything else should be banned. There's a shortage of housing everywhere, there's no place for Airbnb in such an environment.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >Airbnb should be back to what it was at the beginning, a way to rent a room in your own house Every app that starts with the idea of renting "just a room", quickly turns into an unofficial mass market rental scheme by the users. Same how every app that starts with the idea of traveling, socializing and meeting new people, eventually gets turned into an unofficial dating and hookup app by its users.

buro9 3y ago

Reminder for those in the UK and Europe... this is illegal. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/individual-rights/automated-decision-making-and-profiling/what-does-the-uk-gdpr-say-about-automated-decision-making-and-profiling/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-re... > Article 22(1) of the UK GDPR limits the circumstances in which you can make solely automated decisions, including those based on profiling, that have a legal or similarly significant effect on individuals. "legal or similarly significant effect on individuals" includes discrimination based on any protected characteristics. AirBnB in any defence will have to prove that race, age, gender, sexuality, disability, etc were _not_ part of any automated decision. As the article mentions that this is being deployed to the UK I have cited a UK specific article.

verbify 3y ago
I'm wondering how I could figure out that I was the victim of this. Perhaps if the booking was cancelled almost immediately after being booked. Wouldn't the workaround for airbnb to be having a member of staff 'approve' the decision (where the member of staff has thousands to approve a day,and understands that their job is to just click approve all the time).
makingstuffs 3y ago
Wouldn’t be surprised if Rishi and Co shred up GDPR obligations while on their spree of shredding our other rights. So far we’ve lost or are losing: Right to protest[0] Right to strike[1] Human rights[2] [0] https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-passing-new-public-order-laws-marks-dark-new-era-peaceful-protest https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-passing-new-pub... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/05/uk-ministers-announce-anti-strike-legislation https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/05/uk-ministers... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/19/rishi-sunak-could-block-key-human-rights-law-force-through-rwanda-asylum-plan https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/19/rishi-sunak-...
- ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
  Well, if we didn't want Rishi to destroy the country so much, we shouldn't have voted for him

spacebacon 3y ago

I would assume this is easily accomplished with minimal ai. The obvious demographic to target would include young adults, college students, urban dwellers, individuals with outgoing personalities, those who enjoy socializing, and people within certain professions like event planning or entertainment. The psychographic target is also not some mystery advanced ai has to unravel… Individuals who relish social settings, finding joy in connections with others, often possess an adventurous spirit, embracing novelty and pursuing thrills. Typically extroverted, they thrive amidst lively atmospheres, delighting in music, dancing, and various forms of entertainment commonly found at gatherings. Prioritizing fun and relaxation, these individuals treasure parties as opportunities to unwind and savor life's pleasures. Some among them exhibit a willingness to take risks, drawn to experiences that provide an adrenaline rush and a sense of adventure. With all this said, airbnb is literally attacking the majority of the user base that made airbnb what it is. Sounds like airbnb may need to rebrand to Auntie BnB and start charging micro-transactions for small thrills once their user base is thoroughly oppressed.

kthartic 3y ago
> delighting in music, dancing, and various forms of entertainment commonly Genuine question, but how will Airbnb know this about you? Are you suggesting they've bought some 3rd party dataset that contains this information about its customers, or is somehow inferring these precise personality interests by looking at a customer's prior bookings? I'm aware Airbnb lets you book 'experiences', which could be used to infer personality, but I'm not sure how popular these actually are (as an extrovert with extroverted friends in their lates 20s/early 30s I don't know anyone that has booked any). I think it's possibly much simpler than we think - they can probably just look at your average booking size by number of guests (to determine how likely you frequently party), the type of property/location you've booked, and how close to NYE you've made the booking (a last minute NYE booking with 13 guests screams party).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- spacebacon 3y ago

cpursley 3y ago

Just wait until this is deployed against people with the “wrong” political, religious, etc beliefs and tuned in a way that legally skirts the 1st Amendment. Update: For the down-voters, my wife was banned from Airbnb for being from the “wrong” country despite her being a naturalized US citizen.

ceejayoz 3y ago
Read the first few words of the First Amendment. The first one, even. There are lots of laws that may apply here. The First Amendment isn’t one of them.
pizzafeelsright 3y ago
FB, Twitter, and other sites have been suppressing links and keywords for years. Certain political and medical positions have received active suppression on these platforms which are then defended as misinformation only to be shown accurate years later.
mdek 3y ago
https://ijr.com/airbnb-ban-parents-conservative-youtuber-mistake/ https://ijr.com/airbnb-ban-parents-conservative-youtuber-mis...

da39a3ee 3y ago

s/AI/logistic regression/

desku 3y ago
I’d doubt it’s even that complicated, a few if-statements would be enough.
- da39a3ee 3y ago
  I'm not sure why you think that. The input data is clearly quite high-dimensional. Unless you work there, it seems rather arrogant to suppose that you could replace someone's hard work with "a few if statements". Unless you meant learning a decision tree classifier from the data?

jeegsy 3y ago

Why ban parties across the platform?

blamazon 3y ago
For one, loud parties might upset neighbors who might coordinate politically to restrict or even ban Airbnb in their area.
- mnd999 3y ago
  Sure, but its NYE. In most neighbourhoods there are going to be parties anyway, AirBnB or no.
  - dspillett 3y ago
    Many, but I wouldn't say most. There are a few generally quiet areas here where I wouldn't expect loud NYE parties, but there are houses taken over for AirBnB use (one of which is near me, and he needs to get his lock-box fixed, I've been asked about it a few times which begs another question: why do AirBnB renters think a random local walking by will be able to help them get in?!).
    - turquoisevar 3y ago
      Probably because there’s no dedicated front desk and any random person could be the host is my guess? I don’t know. I prefer my accommodations with a front desk, if only because I tend to check in at odd hours and it’s nice having a human available to help if there are issues. By comparison AirBnB seems like those annoying customer service “AIs” who are always eager to let you know how much you can get accomplished on the company’s website.
      - dspillett 3y ago
        It could be that they are hoping that I know the owner, assuming the owner is local (often the houses specifically setup as short-term lets are not owned by someone local though, local to the city maybe but not the street), which I can understand. But on more than one occasion I've got a strong “you can't just leave us out here with no clue!” vibe which really makes me wonder just what else they expect me to do!

TrackerFF 3y ago

if (booking.customer.age <= 25) and (booking.date.between("27-12-2023","02-01-2024")): booking.decline(show_random_error=True) else: booking.confirm()

littlestymaar 3y ago
Yes but with AI so they can pretend it's not age-based discrimination. “we're not discriminating, maybe the computer is, we'll investigate”
- kbos87 3y ago
  Is it discrimination if it is rooted in an objectively good reason? You also can't rent a car in a lot of places until you are 25.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    Yes. It may be legal discrimination, though. In the US, Federal law makes age discrimination illegal only if the victim is over 40.
  - TrackerFF 3y ago
    I guess if you follow a rule-based system, with hard-coded rules, you are explicitly discriminating someone. How you came up with those rules, is another discussion - it could very well be that there's some legit reason for coming up with rules, that justifies them. I honestly don't know how these discrimination laws work in the US, or many other countries. On the other hand, if you build some model/classifier, and say: Given data/features, and some constraints, minimize/maximize for probability of partying. Then that black-box model could be used to classify whether a potential renter is likely/at risk to host a party or not. You're not explicitly saying "NO PEOPLE OF CERTAIN SKIN COLOR OR GENDER UNDER A CERTAIN AGE ALOWED", but rather your classifier is doing it for you, without stating it plainly - because maybe the above group happens to get classified a lot to the "party" group/class. Such models could have a lot of bias.

Yoric 3y ago

Oh, yes, I've fallen afoul of that a few years ago. A booking for one adult (not in the stereotypical partygoer age range) and one child (definitely not in that age range) and of course Airbnb decided that it was a party and there was no way to appeal. So much fun.