5 ms·

Or we could collectively ask ourselves what we want and do that, instead of leaving the decision to the most selfish of our kind. That was never a good system t

by Tade0 3y ago

Or we could collectively ask ourselves what we want and do that, instead of leaving the decision to the most selfish of our kind. That was never a good system to begin with.

akoboldfrying 3y ago
>we could collectively ask ourselves what we want and do that That is what democratic countries already do every 3-5 years -- and TTBOMK the system that gets chosen has so far had capitalism as an important component every single time, despite the option to vote for parties that eschew it partly or completely.
- Kbelicius 3y ago
  This is ignoring a lot of history where people democratically chose something different just to be "invaded" by those that chose capitalism.
  - Tainnor 3y ago
    Maybe, but nobody has invaded the US or Western Europe for a while now. I think the counterargument that I would mount is that what people want, or think what they want, isn't necessarily what is good for them. This is obviously a very dangerous line of thought - because it can justify all sorts of oppression - but I think it's nevertheless true.
- Eisenstein 3y ago
  The 'capitalism' of FDR looks very much like socialism these days. Maybe our definitions are just fluid.
- mistermann 3y ago
  >>we could collectively ask ourselves what we want and do that >That is what democratic countries already do every 3-5 years Not sure what country you live in but in Canada they just give you a list of 4 or 5 names of people and you choose one, there's no asking of people what they'd like to do in the slightest. In fact, it's even worse: the folks campaign with certain sales pitches, but rarely follow up on their promises. It is fascinating how well done story telling can make people oblivious to what physically occurs.
  - akoboldfrying 3y ago
    Is there a law in Canada that prohibits people from forming political parties opposed to capitalism, or other prohibitive hurdles (e.g., a large registration fee) that prevent most people from doing so in practice? If the answer is no, then the fact that no one currently on the ballot represents such a party is just evidence that Canadians, today, have almost no interest in these political approaches. >the folks campaign with certain sales pitches, but rarely follow up on their promises. I agree this is a serious problem with existing democratic systems, but I don't know what to do about it. In theory people punish politicians who fail to deliver by voting them out, but in practice, a lot happens between elections, and people's attention wanders.
    - mistermann 3y ago
      > I agree this is a serious problem with existing democratic systems, but I don't know what to do about it. I am curious why you can "know" all the other things you allege, yet not also "know" this? Is there something different about the proposition?

by Tade0 3y ago

Or we could collectively ask ourselves what we want and do that, instead of leaving the decision to the most selfish of our kind. That was never a good system to begin with.

akoboldfrying 3y ago

>we could collectively ask ourselves what we want and do that That is what democratic countries already do every 3-5 years -- and TTBOMK the system that gets chosen has so far had capitalism as an important component every single time, despite the option to vote for parties that eschew it partly or completely.

Kbelicius 3y ago
This is ignoring a lot of history where people democratically chose something different just to be "invaded" by those that chose capitalism.
- Tainnor 3y ago
  Maybe, but nobody has invaded the US or Western Europe for a while now. I think the counterargument that I would mount is that what people want, or think what they want, isn't necessarily what is good for them. This is obviously a very dangerous line of thought - because it can justify all sorts of oppression - but I think it's nevertheless true.
Eisenstein 3y ago
The 'capitalism' of FDR looks very much like socialism these days. Maybe our definitions are just fluid.
mistermann 3y ago
>>we could collectively ask ourselves what we want and do that >That is what democratic countries already do every 3-5 years Not sure what country you live in but in Canada they just give you a list of 4 or 5 names of people and you choose one, there's no asking of people what they'd like to do in the slightest. In fact, it's even worse: the folks campaign with certain sales pitches, but rarely follow up on their promises. It is fascinating how well done story telling can make people oblivious to what physically occurs.
- akoboldfrying 3y ago
  Is there a law in Canada that prohibits people from forming political parties opposed to capitalism, or other prohibitive hurdles (e.g., a large registration fee) that prevent most people from doing so in practice? If the answer is no, then the fact that no one currently on the ballot represents such a party is just evidence that Canadians, today, have almost no interest in these political approaches. >the folks campaign with certain sales pitches, but rarely follow up on their promises. I agree this is a serious problem with existing democratic systems, but I don't know what to do about it. In theory people punish politicians who fail to deliver by voting them out, but in practice, a lot happens between elections, and people's attention wanders.
  - mistermann 3y ago
    > I agree this is a serious problem with existing democratic systems, but I don't know what to do about it. I am curious why you can "know" all the other things you allege, yet not also "know" this? Is there something different about the proposition?