5 ms·

Obviously this is a Chinese car, but their 1044km claim is using the CLTC range tests, which are wildly optimistic. I’d expect this to be closer to 500-550mi of

Obviously this is a Chinese car, but their 1044km claim is using the CLTC range tests, which are wildly optimistic. I’d expect this to be closer to 500-550mi of EPA range (vs 635 here). Still impressive, but not exactly shocking for a sedan with a 150kWh battery to be capable of this range. I think the more impressive thing is cramming 150kWh of battery into a 4 door sedan.

idontwantthis 3y ago
The massive battery is the point. It’s a much more dense chemistry. It’s not a more efficient car.
- Robotbeat 3y ago
  Efficiency (percent for percent) can buy you all the advantages of higher energy density, but with higher charge speed (ie miles per charge minute, for a given wattage), lower charge cost, cheaper battery (fewer kWhs), etc. So really, you wouldn’t want to sacrifice much efficiency to get greater energy density. You really want BOTH. A Lucid Air with this kind of battery would have greater range than a lot of gas cars; a fantastic road trip car. In fact, you could go basically a full day’s driving (11-12hours) without charging, then charge overnight with a beefy L2 charger (typically a lot cheaper than fast charging) and never have to actually stop during the day for charging.
thorncorona 3y ago
The article says they travelled 1044km on a livestream, with 3% battery left, not CLTC?
KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
Just get a lucid, same thing.
- clouddrover 3y ago
  Except Nios can both charge and swap. You can have a 75 kWh battery most of the time, swap to a 150 kWh for a road trip, and then swap back to a 75 kWh for your daily driving. It means you don't own the battery, but it also means you can change to a new battery whenever you want.
  - KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
    If they fully insure or warranty the battery against all damages then it's a great deal. Battery depreciates a lot faster than the car, even if you don't use it.
    - andruby 3y ago
      Do you have any data to support the statement that batteries depreciate a lot faster than the car? Tesla guarantees the battery for 8 years or 192,000km. If the battery degraded to below 80% of spec, they replace it for free. Meaning that probably 95% or more of their batteries still have a higher capacity at that point. Modern EV batteries are really good. A car that's 8 years old or has 192,000km will probably have lost about 70% of its resale value.
      - Robotbeat 3y ago
        I have a 2013 Tesla Model S I bought used. It now has about 150,000 miles on it, probably about 85% of the battery capacity, and still gets regular over the air updates. I go on road trips a few times a year (with my family of 5), last time was about 2/3rds across the continental US and back. It’s got wear and tear like a 10 year old car, but the battery is fine.
        bradfa 3y ago
        What was your used Tesla buying experience like? Did you buy from a dealer or a private party? Any issues with the transfer of ownership? How has the car held up other than the battery? You say it has wear and tear like a 10 year old car but that can mean drastically different things depending on how people normally maintain their cars and what kinds of environments they drive in (local to me in upstate NY we use a lot of salt on the roads, an average 10 year old car is likely going to be nearing to the end of its life due to rust issues whose repair cost may equal a substantial portion of the value of the car).
borg_ 3y ago
Obviously you didn't read (the first sentence of) the article, I applaud your courage in commenting regardless. The 1044km claim is from a livestream where the CEO of the company drove the car from Shanghai to Xiamen until there's 3% left in the battery. All this amid a cold wave too. > The temperature during the test was between -2 °C and 12 °C (28 – 54 °F). The coldest time was at the beginning of the test, as it was early morning in Shanghai. The average cabin temperature was 20 °C (68 °F). The carload was about 190 kg (two adults, lifestream equipment, and other items).
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Yeah CEOs are well known for their unbiased claims about their own companies, much more so than standards bodies (however flawed)
  - adrianN 3y ago
    How can you bias a livestream where you drive the number of kilometers that you later claim that you can drive with the car? You can at worst commit outright fraud, but bias?
    - ViewTrick1002 3y ago
      Hypermiling is a known method for extending the range. That is why standardized tests are important so you can match the standardized number to your driving. A livestream is hard to fake but what tires were they using? What was the climate control setting? What speed? Did they have a tail wind? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiling
      - adrianN 3y ago
        They give you most of that information in the article.
      - tooltalk 3y ago
        The maximum speed was caped to 90 km/hour (56 miles/hour), and the energy consumption was 13.2 kWh/100 km. The average speed for the trip was 83.9 km/h. so there it goes, driven at an average speed of 53 mph hypermilling! For comparison, Tesla M3 achieved 975km: In May 2018, Sean Mitchell and Erik Strait set a hypermiling record for the Tesla Model 3 by driving 606.2 miles on a single charge after 32 hours of driving.

idontwantthis 3y ago

The massive battery is the point. It’s a much more dense chemistry. It’s not a more efficient car.

Robotbeat 3y ago
Efficiency (percent for percent) can buy you all the advantages of higher energy density, but with higher charge speed (ie miles per charge minute, for a given wattage), lower charge cost, cheaper battery (fewer kWhs), etc. So really, you wouldn’t want to sacrifice much efficiency to get greater energy density. You really want BOTH. A Lucid Air with this kind of battery would have greater range than a lot of gas cars; a fantastic road trip car. In fact, you could go basically a full day’s driving (11-12hours) without charging, then charge overnight with a beefy L2 charger (typically a lot cheaper than fast charging) and never have to actually stop during the day for charging.

thorncorona 3y ago

The article says they travelled 1044km on a livestream, with 3% battery left, not CLTC?

KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago

Just get a lucid, same thing.

clouddrover 3y ago
Except Nios can both charge and swap. You can have a 75 kWh battery most of the time, swap to a 150 kWh for a road trip, and then swap back to a 75 kWh for your daily driving. It means you don't own the battery, but it also means you can change to a new battery whenever you want.
- KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
  If they fully insure or warranty the battery against all damages then it's a great deal. Battery depreciates a lot faster than the car, even if you don't use it.
  - andruby 3y ago
    Do you have any data to support the statement that batteries depreciate a lot faster than the car? Tesla guarantees the battery for 8 years or 192,000km. If the battery degraded to below 80% of spec, they replace it for free. Meaning that probably 95% or more of their batteries still have a higher capacity at that point. Modern EV batteries are really good. A car that's 8 years old or has 192,000km will probably have lost about 70% of its resale value.
    - Robotbeat 3y ago
      I have a 2013 Tesla Model S I bought used. It now has about 150,000 miles on it, probably about 85% of the battery capacity, and still gets regular over the air updates. I go on road trips a few times a year (with my family of 5), last time was about 2/3rds across the continental US and back. It’s got wear and tear like a 10 year old car, but the battery is fine.
      - bradfa 3y ago
        What was your used Tesla buying experience like? Did you buy from a dealer or a private party? Any issues with the transfer of ownership? How has the car held up other than the battery? You say it has wear and tear like a 10 year old car but that can mean drastically different things depending on how people normally maintain their cars and what kinds of environments they drive in (local to me in upstate NY we use a lot of salt on the roads, an average 10 year old car is likely going to be nearing to the end of its life due to rust issues whose repair cost may equal a substantial portion of the value of the car).

borg_ 3y ago

Obviously you didn't read (the first sentence of) the article, I applaud your courage in commenting regardless. The 1044km claim is from a livestream where the CEO of the company drove the car from Shanghai to Xiamen until there's 3% left in the battery. All this amid a cold wave too. > The temperature during the test was between -2 °C and 12 °C (28 – 54 °F). The coldest time was at the beginning of the test, as it was early morning in Shanghai. The average cabin temperature was 20 °C (68 °F). The carload was about 190 kg (two adults, lifestream equipment, and other items).

wkat4242 3y ago
Yeah CEOs are well known for their unbiased claims about their own companies, much more so than standards bodies (however flawed)
- adrianN 3y ago
  How can you bias a livestream where you drive the number of kilometers that you later claim that you can drive with the car? You can at worst commit outright fraud, but bias?
  - ViewTrick1002 3y ago
    Hypermiling is a known method for extending the range. That is why standardized tests are important so you can match the standardized number to your driving. A livestream is hard to fake but what tires were they using? What was the climate control setting? What speed? Did they have a tail wind? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiling
    - adrianN 3y ago
      They give you most of that information in the article.
    - tooltalk 3y ago
      The maximum speed was caped to 90 km/hour (56 miles/hour), and the energy consumption was 13.2 kWh/100 km. The average speed for the trip was 83.9 km/h. so there it goes, driven at an average speed of 53 mph hypermilling! For comparison, Tesla M3 achieved 975km: In May 2018, Sean Mitchell and Erik Strait set a hypermiling record for the Tesla Model 3 by driving 606.2 miles on a single charge after 32 hours of driving.