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It cracks me up that in every article about HDR support coming to some application, the pictures are inevitably SDR JPGs. It's just sad that we're days from 20

It cracks me up that in every article about HDR support coming to some application, the pictures are inevitably SDR JPGs. It's just sad that we're days from 2024 and it's still impossible to create a web page with HDR photos in it that'll actually display correctly on... anything really.

porphyra 3y ago
Ironically one of the only ways to make HDR content on webpages is to make it a ,<video>, which was done for the super bright QR code: https://notes.dt.in.th/HDRQRCode https://notes.dt.in.th/HDRQRCode
- tobyhinloopen 3y ago
  This is incorrect. Chrome and Safari can render HDR images. I've had success with 10bit avipf and 16bit PNG
- Siyo 3y ago
  I'm not sure why, but this trick doesn't work on Firefox / Mac. YouTube HDR video works fine though. Maybe it actually has to be playing?
kllrnohj 3y ago
https://gregbenzphotography.com/hdr-gain-map-gallery/ https://gregbenzphotography.com/hdr-gain-map-gallery/ There you go, HDR photos that display correctly everywhere. Bunch more information on this here https://gregbenzphotography.com/hdr-images/jpg-hdr-gain-maps-in-adobe-camera-raw/ https://gregbenzphotography.com/hdr-images/jpg-hdr-gain-maps... It's what Pixel now captures by default as well.
- avensec 3y ago
  Really appreciate this link. I used a LG C2 as my monitor and I've been having trouble with HDR content in W11/Chrome for years. I always end up using Edge or otherwise for Youtube HDR, and this helped me debug.
- jiggawatts 3y ago
  Doesn’t work on iPhones — the most common high quality HDR display people I know are likely to use. I can’t use this technique to publish my photos to them. I can use an Apple format to send HDR images to my friends and relatives with Apple devices. I can use some other Adobe or Google formats to send pictures to my friends with Android (=Google) phones. Etc… We don’t have any new widely adopted open standards any more in today’s FAANG era of mutually antagonistic fiefdoms. At best one of them muscles out the competing formats and that becomes a defacto standard. For everything else we’re stuck with pre-FAANG standards established at a time when companies were smaller, didn’t “own” the whole stack top to bottom, and were forced to cooperate. Google owns that hardware (Pixel), OS (Android), browser (Chrome), protocol (HTTP3, Brotli), codec (VP9, WEBM), and television itself (YouTube). There’s an identical stack for Apple. Why do you imagine it’ll ever be possible for Google user to send a full fidelity photo to an Apple user? They live on opposite sides of a new iron curtain. They’re not even permitted to text each other properly!
  - c0balt 3y ago
    > Why do you imagine it’ll ever be possible for Google user to send a full fidelity photo to an Apple user? It's possible today. Apple may just not give you the ability to actually view the image though.
    - jiggawatts 3y ago
      Touché.
    - account42 3y ago
      They also prevent others from giving you that ability (at least as far as content on the web goes).
  - whatevaa 3y ago
    Ask your beloved Apple, they are the ones who love their walled gardens.
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    I think Facebook, Apple and everybody else in VR agrees on GLTF as a model interchange format.
prmoustache 3y ago
Are HDR monitors a common thing nowadays? All my laptops are pre 2020, I don't own a TV (use a beamer instead) so I have no idea what is on the market these days. What is the penetration rate? I mean is it a gimmick only wealthy people in the US use or will you find lower and middle class use HDR all over the world?
- stonogo 3y ago
  It's too new to tell whether HDR is here to stay or a passing fad. I predict that it's here to stay but it'll probably take a decade or two before you see it on anything but high-end devices. The difference isn't particularly impressive and most people won't even notice its absence. Right now the marketing hype is at gaming people and as a movie gimmick. There are two competing implementations on the software side. Apple has theirs and Google has theirs. Since Apple will just quietly ship whatever they want forever, and Google has the attention span of a gnat, I suspect Apple's stack is here to stay and Google's version will be the HD-DVD to Apple's Blu-ray.
  - timrichard 3y ago
    Maybe the difference for monitors for computer work doesn’t make so much difference (unless you work in photo or video), but for TVs I think going from SDR to HDR can make a bigger difference than, say, going from 1080p to 4K (although HDR TVs will also tend to be 4K). To appreciate the benefit of 4K, you would need a TV big enough and be sitting close enough. Whereas with HDR, the human eye is sensitive to a wider dynamic range. This is dependent on the format and type of content, of course. The vast majority of content out there is going to be SDR. For indoor dialogue scenes, HDR is probably not going to be so pronounced. I recently binge-watched six seasons of The Expanse in HDR with the lights down, and loved the space scenes. Anything bright enough makes you squint as you would in the cinema.
    - red75prime 3y ago
      > the human eye is sensitive to a wider dynamic range But our brains are also good at adapting for lower dynamic range images. We have no trouble recognizing a smudge of white with the same luminosity as a white wall as a sun glint, despite the real sun glint being thousand times more luminous. I had trouble noticing that an HDR video is playing as SDR (due to player or browser limitations). Yes, something feels a bit off, but it's not that pronounced until you play the same video in HDR. Then the contrast (hehe) makes you see the difference clearly.
PaulHoule 3y ago
I know with wide color gamut in Microsoft Windows, a screenshot is in the monitor’s color space since applications are responsible for delivering rectangles of pixels in that space. I don’t know if HDR is different.

porphyra 3y ago

Ironically one of the only ways to make HDR content on webpages is to make it a ,<video>, which was done for the super bright QR code: https://notes.dt.in.th/HDRQRCode https://notes.dt.in.th/HDRQRCode

tobyhinloopen 3y ago
This is incorrect. Chrome and Safari can render HDR images. I've had success with 10bit avipf and 16bit PNG
Siyo 3y ago
I'm not sure why, but this trick doesn't work on Firefox / Mac. YouTube HDR video works fine though. Maybe it actually has to be playing?

kllrnohj 3y ago

https://gregbenzphotography.com/hdr-gain-map-gallery/ https://gregbenzphotography.com/hdr-gain-map-gallery/ There you go, HDR photos that display correctly everywhere. Bunch more information on this here https://gregbenzphotography.com/hdr-images/jpg-hdr-gain-maps-in-adobe-camera-raw/ https://gregbenzphotography.com/hdr-images/jpg-hdr-gain-maps... It's what Pixel now captures by default as well.

avensec 3y ago
Really appreciate this link. I used a LG C2 as my monitor and I've been having trouble with HDR content in W11/Chrome for years. I always end up using Edge or otherwise for Youtube HDR, and this helped me debug.
jiggawatts 3y ago
Doesn’t work on iPhones — the most common high quality HDR display people I know are likely to use. I can’t use this technique to publish my photos to them. I can use an Apple format to send HDR images to my friends and relatives with Apple devices. I can use some other Adobe or Google formats to send pictures to my friends with Android (=Google) phones. Etc… We don’t have any new widely adopted open standards any more in today’s FAANG era of mutually antagonistic fiefdoms. At best one of them muscles out the competing formats and that becomes a defacto standard. For everything else we’re stuck with pre-FAANG standards established at a time when companies were smaller, didn’t “own” the whole stack top to bottom, and were forced to cooperate. Google owns that hardware (Pixel), OS (Android), browser (Chrome), protocol (HTTP3, Brotli), codec (VP9, WEBM), and television itself (YouTube). There’s an identical stack for Apple. Why do you imagine it’ll ever be possible for Google user to send a full fidelity photo to an Apple user? They live on opposite sides of a new iron curtain. They’re not even permitted to text each other properly!
- c0balt 3y ago
  > Why do you imagine it’ll ever be possible for Google user to send a full fidelity photo to an Apple user? It's possible today. Apple may just not give you the ability to actually view the image though.
  - jiggawatts 3y ago
    Touché.
  - account42 3y ago
    They also prevent others from giving you that ability (at least as far as content on the web goes).
- whatevaa 3y ago
  Ask your beloved Apple, they are the ones who love their walled gardens.
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  I think Facebook, Apple and everybody else in VR agrees on GLTF as a model interchange format.

prmoustache 3y ago

Are HDR monitors a common thing nowadays? All my laptops are pre 2020, I don't own a TV (use a beamer instead) so I have no idea what is on the market these days. What is the penetration rate? I mean is it a gimmick only wealthy people in the US use or will you find lower and middle class use HDR all over the world?

stonogo 3y ago
It's too new to tell whether HDR is here to stay or a passing fad. I predict that it's here to stay but it'll probably take a decade or two before you see it on anything but high-end devices. The difference isn't particularly impressive and most people won't even notice its absence. Right now the marketing hype is at gaming people and as a movie gimmick. There are two competing implementations on the software side. Apple has theirs and Google has theirs. Since Apple will just quietly ship whatever they want forever, and Google has the attention span of a gnat, I suspect Apple's stack is here to stay and Google's version will be the HD-DVD to Apple's Blu-ray.
- timrichard 3y ago
  Maybe the difference for monitors for computer work doesn’t make so much difference (unless you work in photo or video), but for TVs I think going from SDR to HDR can make a bigger difference than, say, going from 1080p to 4K (although HDR TVs will also tend to be 4K). To appreciate the benefit of 4K, you would need a TV big enough and be sitting close enough. Whereas with HDR, the human eye is sensitive to a wider dynamic range. This is dependent on the format and type of content, of course. The vast majority of content out there is going to be SDR. For indoor dialogue scenes, HDR is probably not going to be so pronounced. I recently binge-watched six seasons of The Expanse in HDR with the lights down, and loved the space scenes. Anything bright enough makes you squint as you would in the cinema.
  - red75prime 3y ago
    > the human eye is sensitive to a wider dynamic range But our brains are also good at adapting for lower dynamic range images. We have no trouble recognizing a smudge of white with the same luminosity as a white wall as a sun glint, despite the real sun glint being thousand times more luminous. I had trouble noticing that an HDR video is playing as SDR (due to player or browser limitations). Yes, something feels a bit off, but it's not that pronounced until you play the same video in HDR. Then the contrast (hehe) makes you see the difference clearly.

PaulHoule 3y ago

I know with wide color gamut in Microsoft Windows, a screenshot is in the monitor’s color space since applications are responsible for delivering rectangles of pixels in that space. I don’t know if HDR is different.