4 ms·

Why are retail establishments permitted to use this at all? The state of privacy law in the United States is a clown show.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
wahnfrieden 3y ago
Companies provide written legislation that is ratified into law with at most an assistant reading through it. Regular citizen constituency lacks the coordination and resources and bribery power to do likewise and must instead wait years between votes to try to find better representation.
ribosometronome 3y ago
Why shouldn't retailers be allowed to use this at all? The FTC's reason seems to be because they did it poorly and discriminatorily but that doesn't seem to be your concern. Is your concern that they're recording people in the store? Are there non-clown show countries where they were forward thinking and put a stop to the collection of that biometric data decades ago? Or that they're looking at the recordings? Comparing the recordings to other recordings? Like... what's the too far step that America needs to ban to not be a clown show?
- galleywest200 3y ago
  > Is your concern that they're recording people in the store? Recording via CCTV for security purposes is not the same as using facial recognition technology. Facial recognition technology produces data which may or may not be shared/sold to unknown (to me) third parties.
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
    That ship has sailed. When in public, consider yourself always recorded and always identified.
musicale 3y ago
It's embarrassing that the issue was the accuracy of the intrusive, privacy-invading technology.
windexh8er 3y ago
Why does this only apply to retail? What about Google's failures [0]? [0] https://www.wired.com/story/when-it-comes-to-gorillas-google-photos-remains-blind/ https://www.wired.com/story/when-it-comes-to-gorillas-google...
Frost1x 3y ago
Different laws and rights have different priorities. Private property ownership trumps a lot of rights and laws, passing near authoritarian rights to owners within their property. Free speech for example has no priority over property ownership as I can remove you and therefore your speech from my property. The right to bear arms takes a back seat to my right to again dictate if you can or cannot be on my property. Exceptions of course exist, like I can't exactly murder someone on my property legally (unless they're invading unlawfully and I feel threatened, in some states). Quite a bit exists and caters to protect those who own things in this country.
elicksaur 3y ago
While I agree that this technology is a problem, what privacy laws/regulations would you suggest? The problem with coming up with reasonable ones for this sort of thing is that the customers are in a public place. Are businesses not allowed to record on their property and analyze those recordings? What about a security guard spotting someone who shoplifted last week? Or a business tracking credit card numbers across stores? In order for things to be different, the policy makers need reasons to draw lines between this and examples like the above that most people would agree businesses can do. Here, accuracy helped be that reason, but it’s only a matter of time before the models are more accurate.
lmm 3y ago
Why is it a privacy issue? How people look isn't secret. Having a security guard who won't allow people who look like people who've been banned from the store, or mugshots that have been circulated, is normal practice, no?
- dawnerd 3y ago
  Because your face is ultimately tied to a payment method and profile of you and sold to whatever data broker wants it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

wahnfrieden 3y ago

Companies provide written legislation that is ratified into law with at most an assistant reading through it. Regular citizen constituency lacks the coordination and resources and bribery power to do likewise and must instead wait years between votes to try to find better representation.

ribosometronome 3y ago

Why shouldn't retailers be allowed to use this at all? The FTC's reason seems to be because they did it poorly and discriminatorily but that doesn't seem to be your concern. Is your concern that they're recording people in the store? Are there non-clown show countries where they were forward thinking and put a stop to the collection of that biometric data decades ago? Or that they're looking at the recordings? Comparing the recordings to other recordings? Like... what's the too far step that America needs to ban to not be a clown show?

galleywest200 3y ago
> Is your concern that they're recording people in the store? Recording via CCTV for security purposes is not the same as using facial recognition technology. Facial recognition technology produces data which may or may not be shared/sold to unknown (to me) third parties.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
  That ship has sailed. When in public, consider yourself always recorded and always identified.

musicale 3y ago

It's embarrassing that the issue was the accuracy of the intrusive, privacy-invading technology.

windexh8er 3y ago

Why does this only apply to retail? What about Google's failures [0]? [0] https://www.wired.com/story/when-it-comes-to-gorillas-google-photos-remains-blind/ https://www.wired.com/story/when-it-comes-to-gorillas-google...

Frost1x 3y ago

Different laws and rights have different priorities. Private property ownership trumps a lot of rights and laws, passing near authoritarian rights to owners within their property. Free speech for example has no priority over property ownership as I can remove you and therefore your speech from my property. The right to bear arms takes a back seat to my right to again dictate if you can or cannot be on my property. Exceptions of course exist, like I can't exactly murder someone on my property legally (unless they're invading unlawfully and I feel threatened, in some states). Quite a bit exists and caters to protect those who own things in this country.

elicksaur 3y ago

While I agree that this technology is a problem, what privacy laws/regulations would you suggest? The problem with coming up with reasonable ones for this sort of thing is that the customers are in a public place. Are businesses not allowed to record on their property and analyze those recordings? What about a security guard spotting someone who shoplifted last week? Or a business tracking credit card numbers across stores? In order for things to be different, the policy makers need reasons to draw lines between this and examples like the above that most people would agree businesses can do. Here, accuracy helped be that reason, but it’s only a matter of time before the models are more accurate.

lmm 3y ago

Why is it a privacy issue? How people look isn't secret. Having a security guard who won't allow people who look like people who've been banned from the store, or mugshots that have been circulated, is normal practice, no?

dawnerd 3y ago
Because your face is ultimately tied to a payment method and profile of you and sold to whatever data broker wants it.