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Citation for Reagan comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Controllers_Organization_(1968)#:~:text=On%20August%205%2C%20following%20the

Citation for Reagan comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Controllers_Organization_(1968)#:~:text=On%20August%205%2C%20following%20the,from%20federal%20service%20for%20life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Contr....

throwaway2037 3y ago
The original "Thanks Regan" comment makes no sense to me. To be clear, President Regan fired all striking air traffic controllers in 1981. The same Wiki article says: <<The FAA had initially claimed that staffing levels would be restored within two years; however, it took closer to 10 years before the overall staffing levels returned to normal.>> So that means, FAA had enough controllers by 1991. What does that incident have to do with today's shortage? Nothing. Deeper: I tried to Google why is there a shortage of air traffic controllers in the United States. The root cause appears unclear to me. I found this article[1], that says: <<Secretary Buttigieg did have some promising news right after Labor Day, when he announced that 1,500 air traffic controllers had been hired this year after an aggressive recruiting campaign and a raise in starting salary to $127,000 a year.>> That is a huge salary in the United States. I'm surprised this is not attracting more qualified candidates. This tells me that this requirements to become an FAA-certified air traffic controller are incredibly strict. Does anyone know why EU / Japan / Korea does not have the same issues? (All highly-advanced, wealthy nations with lots of air travel.) [1] https://www.afar.com/magazine/air-traffic-controller-shortage-to-disrupt-travel-for-years https://www.afar.com/magazine/air-traffic-controller-shortag...
- lmm 3y ago
  > Does anyone know why EU / Japan / Korea does not have the same issues? Because over there the job comes with a strong union and real job security?
  - refurb 3y ago
    Like the pilots of Singapore Airlines? In the words of Lee Kuan Yew… “I gave them a choice. Continue this and I will by every means at my disposal teach you and get the people of Singapore to help me teach you a lesson you won't forget. Took them 65 minutes and they decided ok it isn't worth the fight. Why? Because they know they'll lose. They know that I'm prepared to ground the airline. They know that I can get the airline going again without them.“
    - lmm 3y ago
      Singapore is not a representative example of... anything, honestly. Certainly not of "EU / Japan / Korea" which was the original question. So I have no idea what you're getting at.
      - refurb 3y ago
        Singapore is not unique when it comes to interactions with unions. Check out out the violent union protests in Korea or Japan.
        lmm 3y ago
        If you're trying to claim something relevant you're going to have to do so more explicitly.
        refurb 3y ago
        https://www.industriall-union.org/korean-trade-unions-protest-against-escalating-repression https://www.industriall-union.org/korean-trade-unions-protes... "On 20 July 2023, the Korean Metal Workers' Union (KMWU) took another strong stand against trade union repression in Korea, calling for an end to the heavy-handed tactics employed by the government." The idea that workers in unions in Asia suddenly have robust worker protections is false.
        lmm 3y ago
        The very fact that these fights are happening in 2023 demonstrates that there are, or at least were until recently, strong and active unions. Maybe the Korean government's 2009 law really did depower the unions, and maybe Korea will see a corresponding shortage of workers in air traffic control and similar safety-critical jobs gradually develop as the effect of that works its way through.
- pixl97 3y ago
  127k is not a huge salary in large cities with a life and death responsibility job.
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    Most US airports are not located inside large cities. They are located 15-30km outside large cities. Normally, there is plenty of much cheaper suburban housing available. Also, in your view, is 127k as a starting salary not enough for a "life and death responsibility job"? If no, are you willing to pay higher airfares to cover the cost? If yes, by how much in %? I love these types of reactionary, emotional HN posts. This term: "life and death responsibility job": Do bus/train/truct drivers, crane operators, ER nurses/doctors, firefighters, police, military group troops qualify for that same phrase? I am sure all except medical doctors have a starting salary much, much lower than 127k.

throwaway2037 3y ago

The original "Thanks Regan" comment makes no sense to me. To be clear, President Regan fired all striking air traffic controllers in 1981. The same Wiki article says: <<The FAA had initially claimed that staffing levels would be restored within two years; however, it took closer to 10 years before the overall staffing levels returned to normal.>> So that means, FAA had enough controllers by 1991. What does that incident have to do with today's shortage? Nothing. Deeper: I tried to Google why is there a shortage of air traffic controllers in the United States. The root cause appears unclear to me. I found this article[1], that says: <<Secretary Buttigieg did have some promising news right after Labor Day, when he announced that 1,500 air traffic controllers had been hired this year after an aggressive recruiting campaign and a raise in starting salary to $127,000 a year.>> That is a huge salary in the United States. I'm surprised this is not attracting more qualified candidates. This tells me that this requirements to become an FAA-certified air traffic controller are incredibly strict. Does anyone know why EU / Japan / Korea does not have the same issues? (All highly-advanced, wealthy nations with lots of air travel.) [1] https://www.afar.com/magazine/air-traffic-controller-shortage-to-disrupt-travel-for-years https://www.afar.com/magazine/air-traffic-controller-shortag...

lmm 3y ago
> Does anyone know why EU / Japan / Korea does not have the same issues? Because over there the job comes with a strong union and real job security?
- refurb 3y ago
  Like the pilots of Singapore Airlines? In the words of Lee Kuan Yew… “I gave them a choice. Continue this and I will by every means at my disposal teach you and get the people of Singapore to help me teach you a lesson you won't forget. Took them 65 minutes and they decided ok it isn't worth the fight. Why? Because they know they'll lose. They know that I'm prepared to ground the airline. They know that I can get the airline going again without them.“
  - lmm 3y ago
    Singapore is not a representative example of... anything, honestly. Certainly not of "EU / Japan / Korea" which was the original question. So I have no idea what you're getting at.
    - refurb 3y ago
      Singapore is not unique when it comes to interactions with unions. Check out out the violent union protests in Korea or Japan.
      - lmm 3y ago
        If you're trying to claim something relevant you're going to have to do so more explicitly.
        refurb 3y ago
        https://www.industriall-union.org/korean-trade-unions-protest-against-escalating-repression https://www.industriall-union.org/korean-trade-unions-protes... "On 20 July 2023, the Korean Metal Workers' Union (KMWU) took another strong stand against trade union repression in Korea, calling for an end to the heavy-handed tactics employed by the government." The idea that workers in unions in Asia suddenly have robust worker protections is false.
        lmm 3y ago
        The very fact that these fights are happening in 2023 demonstrates that there are, or at least were until recently, strong and active unions. Maybe the Korean government's 2009 law really did depower the unions, and maybe Korea will see a corresponding shortage of workers in air traffic control and similar safety-critical jobs gradually develop as the effect of that works its way through.
pixl97 3y ago
127k is not a huge salary in large cities with a life and death responsibility job.
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  Most US airports are not located inside large cities. They are located 15-30km outside large cities. Normally, there is plenty of much cheaper suburban housing available. Also, in your view, is 127k as a starting salary not enough for a "life and death responsibility job"? If no, are you willing to pay higher airfares to cover the cost? If yes, by how much in %? I love these types of reactionary, emotional HN posts. This term: "life and death responsibility job": Do bus/train/truct drivers, crane operators, ER nurses/doctors, firefighters, police, military group troops qualify for that same phrase? I am sure all except medical doctors have a starting salary much, much lower than 127k.