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> Elon throwing a tantrum Elon didn't throw a tantrum. He didn't throw himself at the floor screaming like a child. I don't recall he ever did that. And by

by sshine 3y ago

> Elon throwing a tantrum Elon didn't throw a tantrum. He didn't throw himself at the floor screaming like a child. I don't recall he ever did that. And by that I mean: I never forced a car maker to issue a software update. (That's obviously what "recall" means, like reckless tweeting is "throwing a tantrum".) > It's still a recall, no matter how much Tesla fans scream It's possible that both of these are true at once: 1. "Recall" has a legal definition in the car industry 2. "Recall" means returning something to the manufacturer So you can be right in the first, and others (myself included) can be right that it doesn't make sense to think of a forced software update as a recall. Maybe if everyone's autopilot was forcefully deleted and reimbursed, you could call it a recall of that feature. But if autopilot wasn't taken off the shelves and it just behaves differently, then you're stretching the meaning of "recall" to a philosophical extreme. For the sake of argument, THIS IS SCREAMING!!! Objecting to a skewed media narrative isn't.

FireBeyond 3y ago
> Elon didn't throw a tantrum. > He didn't throw himself at the floor screaming like a child. > I don't recall he ever did that. He specifically exclaimed "Fuck it, I don't care, we'll pay the fines" rather than having that adornment in the vehicle. Just because your literalism says that it's not, because there were no mashed fists against the floor, doesn't make it less so, particularly when the definition of tantrum is around outbursts of anger, often immaturely. > But if autopilot wasn't taken off the shelves and it just behaves differently, then you're stretching the meaning of "recall" to a philosophical extreme. Also, then I guess two of my Audi recalls weren't actually recalls either. One involved updating the software for the 'passenger occupancy detection system'. A USB stick was plugged into the car. It didn't happen OTA, but nothing was touched or removed or installed on the vehicle. But I'm sure that would somehow be a recall still. Mechanism. Intent. Two separate things.
- sshine 3y ago
  > > I don't recall he ever did that. > He specifically exclaimed "Fuck it, I don't care, we'll pay the fines" rather than having that adornment in the vehicle. Just because your literalism says that it's not, because there were no mashed fists against the floor, doesn't make it less so, particularly when the definition of tantrum is around outbursts of anger, often immaturely. You could say it's an immature choice when you look at the consequences. But it's not an outburst of anger. No clenched fists, no sweating, no crying, no hissing. He didn't even raise his voice. Was he angry? Sure, he used the word "fuck". Throwing a tantrum is an exaggeration. You can call me a literalist. --- > A USB stick was plugged into the car. It didn't happen OTA, but nothing was touched or removed or installed on the vehicle. But I'm sure that would somehow be a recall still. You have a good point. The difference between plugging a USB key and sending an OTA update is mostly technical. The point of making a distinction: When you recall a car (by physically relocating it, to make it clear), you make it unavailable to the owner until it is returned, at great inconvenience to the owner. If a service update rendered the car unavailable to a similar extent, I'd see the similarity better. I still think the word "recall" would be wrong, not because I'm trying to undermine the extent and severity of the matter. I'm sure we can come up with better, similarly critical words, e.g. "Tesla bricking all their cars for 48 hours".

by sshine 3y ago

FireBeyond 3y ago

> Elon didn't throw a tantrum. > He didn't throw himself at the floor screaming like a child. > I don't recall he ever did that. He specifically exclaimed "Fuck it, I don't care, we'll pay the fines" rather than having that adornment in the vehicle. Just because your literalism says that it's not, because there were no mashed fists against the floor, doesn't make it less so, particularly when the definition of tantrum is around outbursts of anger, often immaturely. > But if autopilot wasn't taken off the shelves and it just behaves differently, then you're stretching the meaning of "recall" to a philosophical extreme. Also, then I guess two of my Audi recalls weren't actually recalls either. One involved updating the software for the 'passenger occupancy detection system'. A USB stick was plugged into the car. It didn't happen OTA, but nothing was touched or removed or installed on the vehicle. But I'm sure that would somehow be a recall still. Mechanism. Intent. Two separate things.

sshine 3y ago
> > I don't recall he ever did that. > He specifically exclaimed "Fuck it, I don't care, we'll pay the fines" rather than having that adornment in the vehicle. Just because your literalism says that it's not, because there were no mashed fists against the floor, doesn't make it less so, particularly when the definition of tantrum is around outbursts of anger, often immaturely. You could say it's an immature choice when you look at the consequences. But it's not an outburst of anger. No clenched fists, no sweating, no crying, no hissing. He didn't even raise his voice. Was he angry? Sure, he used the word "fuck". Throwing a tantrum is an exaggeration. You can call me a literalist. --- > A USB stick was plugged into the car. It didn't happen OTA, but nothing was touched or removed or installed on the vehicle. But I'm sure that would somehow be a recall still. You have a good point. The difference between plugging a USB key and sending an OTA update is mostly technical. The point of making a distinction: When you recall a car (by physically relocating it, to make it clear), you make it unavailable to the owner until it is returned, at great inconvenience to the owner. If a service update rendered the car unavailable to a similar extent, I'd see the similarity better. I still think the word "recall" would be wrong, not because I'm trying to undermine the extent and severity of the matter. I'm sure we can come up with better, similarly critical words, e.g. "Tesla bricking all their cars for 48 hours".