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> Tesla's Autopilot and its Autosteer feature could be why Tesla is so crash-prone. I disagree with this statement. I think the greater issue is that suddenly,

by 1-6 3y ago

> Tesla's Autopilot and its Autosteer feature could be why Tesla is so crash-prone. I disagree with this statement. I think the greater issue is that suddenly, you’ve you’ve given every Tesla owner a car that can accelerate to the equivalent of a base Porsche 911 or better. Most people (I include myself) will not responsibly handle this much power.

kulahan 3y ago
I think a lot about those videos where someone gets their first mustang and absolutely RIP out of the parking lot, only to total the car 50 yards down the road, and imagine if every toyota camry out there had that kind of power.
h0l0cube 3y ago
Then you could see this borne out in the data with other EV sthat feature a similar acceleration (and demographic) profile. But I think it’s both, but acceleration is harder to control with legislation.. maybe a limit in urban areas?
- aziaziazi 3y ago
  Not sure if I infesterions your comment, but can’t we use torque here as an acceleration proxy ?
- _ea1k 3y ago
  That's possible. This data doesn't break it down by model, but it might even be true. No other make would be as heavily influenced by it as Tesla. EVs are less than 10% of sales for most other makes, so the impact would be nearly negligible.
- rolldat777 3y ago
  There is already legislation about acceleration, it falls under e.g. 'exhibition of speed' and everyone one of these modern EVs is able to violate it (and do regularly, afaict).
  - h0l0cube 3y ago
    It's harder to characterize. It could be just a burst of acceleration during an overtaking maneuver, but if this is done while obscured from someone who is about to cross the street, and has judged their safety to do so by the bigger, heavier, slower vehicle in front, then you have a risk of collision. Overtaking is a normal driving maneuver, and limited in duration. Reckless driving, which may be in an exhibitionary manner, is very different in nature and easier to categorise.
kube-system 3y ago
If you look at crash data of lots of different vehicles (e.g. IIHS loss data), there's a clear pattern in the predominant cause of crashes in the real world. It's not how fast the car is, or its safety features. It is the target consumer. Vehicles that appeal to subprime purchasers, boy racers, or other risk takers tend to have higher loss rates compared to similar vehicles. If you look up high horsepower cars that are known as "old man" sports cars, they tend to have low loss numbers. It is the driver that matters more than any other single factor. I think the human factor here is a couple of things: 1. many of these drivers are under the impression that their vehicles can drive semi-autonomously, and so they take more risks in not monitoring the system 2. these vehicles are new and high performance, and they appeal to those who want to show off, display status, and take risks in demonstrating the vehicle's capabilities. 3. they are driven on more dense roads
- 1-6 3y ago
  I think that target consumer you’re referring to have moved on from modded Integras, Civics, RSXs, and GR86/BRZ Rice Rockets to Tesla Model 3s. You certainly get more HPs/lbft torque for the buck and you don’t even need to tune it. All those people sporting vinyl decals on their cars these days are Model 3 owners.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    Even if they aren't boy racers, everyone I have ever rode in a Tesla with enjoys demonstrating the acceleration and autopilot. The buyers are the types of people who enjoy these features. This is a riskier driver than the mindset of someone who doesn't care about those things and bought something else. They see their cars as something to demonstrate, something to experiment with, something to test the bleeding edge of technology with. When was the last time you saw someone in a late model Buick doing hard launches and showing off the lane-keep-assist?
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    Honestly, the Model 3 Performance is the best bang for the buck in performance cars right now.

by 1-6 3y ago

kulahan 3y ago

I think a lot about those videos where someone gets their first mustang and absolutely RIP out of the parking lot, only to total the car 50 yards down the road, and imagine if every toyota camry out there had that kind of power.

h0l0cube 3y ago

Then you could see this borne out in the data with other EV sthat feature a similar acceleration (and demographic) profile. But I think it’s both, but acceleration is harder to control with legislation.. maybe a limit in urban areas?

aziaziazi 3y ago
Not sure if I infesterions your comment, but can’t we use torque here as an acceleration proxy ?
_ea1k 3y ago
That's possible. This data doesn't break it down by model, but it might even be true. No other make would be as heavily influenced by it as Tesla. EVs are less than 10% of sales for most other makes, so the impact would be nearly negligible.
rolldat777 3y ago
There is already legislation about acceleration, it falls under e.g. 'exhibition of speed' and everyone one of these modern EVs is able to violate it (and do regularly, afaict).
- h0l0cube 3y ago
  It's harder to characterize. It could be just a burst of acceleration during an overtaking maneuver, but if this is done while obscured from someone who is about to cross the street, and has judged their safety to do so by the bigger, heavier, slower vehicle in front, then you have a risk of collision. Overtaking is a normal driving maneuver, and limited in duration. Reckless driving, which may be in an exhibitionary manner, is very different in nature and easier to categorise.

kube-system 3y ago

If you look at crash data of lots of different vehicles (e.g. IIHS loss data), there's a clear pattern in the predominant cause of crashes in the real world. It's not how fast the car is, or its safety features. It is the target consumer. Vehicles that appeal to subprime purchasers, boy racers, or other risk takers tend to have higher loss rates compared to similar vehicles. If you look up high horsepower cars that are known as "old man" sports cars, they tend to have low loss numbers. It is the driver that matters more than any other single factor. I think the human factor here is a couple of things: 1. many of these drivers are under the impression that their vehicles can drive semi-autonomously, and so they take more risks in not monitoring the system 2. these vehicles are new and high performance, and they appeal to those who want to show off, display status, and take risks in demonstrating the vehicle's capabilities. 3. they are driven on more dense roads

1-6 3y ago
I think that target consumer you’re referring to have moved on from modded Integras, Civics, RSXs, and GR86/BRZ Rice Rockets to Tesla Model 3s. You certainly get more HPs/lbft torque for the buck and you don’t even need to tune it. All those people sporting vinyl decals on their cars these days are Model 3 owners.
- kube-system 3y ago
  Even if they aren't boy racers, everyone I have ever rode in a Tesla with enjoys demonstrating the acceleration and autopilot. The buyers are the types of people who enjoy these features. This is a riskier driver than the mindset of someone who doesn't care about those things and bought something else. They see their cars as something to demonstrate, something to experiment with, something to test the bleeding edge of technology with. When was the last time you saw someone in a late model Buick doing hard launches and showing off the lane-keep-assist?
- _ea1k 3y ago
  Honestly, the Model 3 Performance is the best bang for the buck in performance cars right now.