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The right to bear arms in the USA is often most appreciated by citizens of foreign lands where life is lived on the precipice between democracy and tyranny. Gun

by anonu 3y ago

The right to bear arms in the USA is often most appreciated by citizens of foreign lands where life is lived on the precipice between democracy and tyranny. Gun deaths and mass shootings are horrible but the solution is not to abolish the 2nd amendment.

eppp 3y ago
Then what IS the solution?
- Wojtkie 3y ago
  Accessible healthcare, social services for the impovershed, accessible education, really anything that lifts people out of the despair or anger that drives them to committing crime.
  - eppp 3y ago
    So instead of just not letting literally crazy people have high mag firearms, you just want us to fix all of society's problems and hope such a utopian society cures all ills.
cbsmith 3y ago
On the other hand, the issue is of grave concern vis-a-vis being on the precipice between democracy & tyranny... Maybe it's not the solution said people think it is.
kgwxd 3y ago
[flagged]
- phkahler 3y ago
  The republican / Democrat divide in the US is best understood by using a 2D map. It not left or right. I wish I could remember what I put on the axis. Anarchy was at the origin with libertarians a bit above it. Democrats want to move up and Republicans want to move right. The extreme upper right corner was a totalitarian dictatorship. The axis were something like spending on one and control on the other, but that doesn't feel quite right.
- oooyay 3y ago
  r/liberalgunowners is pretty popular these days, you should ask them what they think
wolverine876 3y ago
> The right to bear arms in the USA is often most appreciated by citizens of foreign lands where life is lived on the precipice between democracy and tyranny. It's very dramatic to say, but do you have evidence of that? It sounds like a fantasy of the American gun rights crowd (like most of this discussion). > Gun deaths and mass shootings are horrible but the solution is not to abolish the 2nd amendment. Is that the only way to regulate guns, to recind the amendemnt?
- anonu 3y ago
  I would say there are a few events in history and in the geopolitical world that support my claim. The first is the recent spike in gun ownership in Israel following the Hamas attacks [1]. Similarly, you have militias such as Hezbollah who have refused to lay down their weapons post the civil war conflict and have retained a disproportionate amount of power over the citizens of Lebanon. In one example, they have built their own telecom network which, when the state attempted to remove it, Hezbollah fought back by terrorizing the population [2]. In the first case, you see the population seeking to arm themselves to bring the balance of power back inline. In the second case you see the balance of power already tilted towards an armed group. I am not saying guns are the solution. But they are a deterrent. An aggressor will think twice before attacking. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/15/world/middleeast/israel-gun-ownership-spikes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/15/world/middleeast/israel-g... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Lebanon_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Lebanon_conflict
  - pvg 3y ago
    That's a pair of events that are not about the 'precipice between democracy and tyranny'. The argument is a trope of US gun rights advocates but it's not really based on much beyond frequent repetition. I don't mean this as some sort of opening for a gun policy debate, just that this particular thing is largely a slogan, not some meaningful historical pattern. One of its forms has its own Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gun_control_argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gun_control_argument
- RagnarD 3y ago
mad_tortoise 3y ago
I don't like to use the acronym LOL on this site, but here I am. As someone from the Third World, where gun violence is a problem. The USA is still mocked for its rampant gun violence, mass murders and police violence. Let alone for being on the precipice of democracy and tyranny - as seen by Jan 6 and the possibility of Trump being re-elected. That and the USA being responsible for much of the descent from democracy into tyranny in so much of the global South. So there you have it LOL. I do believe you are living in a bubble, whereby your viewpoints are selectively backed up by "world events" that actually do not walk the line between democracy and tyranny.

by anonu 3y ago

eppp 3y ago

Then what IS the solution?

Wojtkie 3y ago
Accessible healthcare, social services for the impovershed, accessible education, really anything that lifts people out of the despair or anger that drives them to committing crime.
- eppp 3y ago
  So instead of just not letting literally crazy people have high mag firearms, you just want us to fix all of society's problems and hope such a utopian society cures all ills.

cbsmith 3y ago

On the other hand, the issue is of grave concern vis-a-vis being on the precipice between democracy & tyranny... Maybe it's not the solution said people think it is.

kgwxd 3y ago

[flagged]

phkahler 3y ago
The republican / Democrat divide in the US is best understood by using a 2D map. It not left or right. I wish I could remember what I put on the axis. Anarchy was at the origin with libertarians a bit above it. Democrats want to move up and Republicans want to move right. The extreme upper right corner was a totalitarian dictatorship. The axis were something like spending on one and control on the other, but that doesn't feel quite right.
oooyay 3y ago
r/liberalgunowners is pretty popular these days, you should ask them what they think

wolverine876 3y ago

> The right to bear arms in the USA is often most appreciated by citizens of foreign lands where life is lived on the precipice between democracy and tyranny. It's very dramatic to say, but do you have evidence of that? It sounds like a fantasy of the American gun rights crowd (like most of this discussion). > Gun deaths and mass shootings are horrible but the solution is not to abolish the 2nd amendment. Is that the only way to regulate guns, to recind the amendemnt?

anonu 3y ago
I would say there are a few events in history and in the geopolitical world that support my claim. The first is the recent spike in gun ownership in Israel following the Hamas attacks [1]. Similarly, you have militias such as Hezbollah who have refused to lay down their weapons post the civil war conflict and have retained a disproportionate amount of power over the citizens of Lebanon. In one example, they have built their own telecom network which, when the state attempted to remove it, Hezbollah fought back by terrorizing the population [2]. In the first case, you see the population seeking to arm themselves to bring the balance of power back inline. In the second case you see the balance of power already tilted towards an armed group. I am not saying guns are the solution. But they are a deterrent. An aggressor will think twice before attacking. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/15/world/middleeast/israel-gun-ownership-spikes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/15/world/middleeast/israel-g... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Lebanon_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Lebanon_conflict
- pvg 3y ago
  That's a pair of events that are not about the 'precipice between democracy and tyranny'. The argument is a trope of US gun rights advocates but it's not really based on much beyond frequent repetition. I don't mean this as some sort of opening for a gun policy debate, just that this particular thing is largely a slogan, not some meaningful historical pattern. One of its forms has its own Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gun_control_argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gun_control_argument
RagnarD 3y ago

mad_tortoise 3y ago

I don't like to use the acronym LOL on this site, but here I am. As someone from the Third World, where gun violence is a problem. The USA is still mocked for its rampant gun violence, mass murders and police violence. Let alone for being on the precipice of democracy and tyranny - as seen by Jan 6 and the possibility of Trump being re-elected. That and the USA being responsible for much of the descent from democracy into tyranny in so much of the global South. So there you have it LOL. I do believe you are living in a bubble, whereby your viewpoints are selectively backed up by "world events" that actually do not walk the line between democracy and tyranny.